2001 ASO USSC Discovery One

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by DanBKing, May 15, 2012.

  1. DanBKing

    DanBKing Active Member

    I have been getting VERY frustrated and grumpy with the antennae array (and myself.) Things are not going as plan. Back to the drawing board..... :headbange:

    Anyway, I took a quick sabbatical ............ http://www.zealot.com/threads/papermikes-smurfette-by-danbking.178560/

    I'll be back on this very soon....... It will not beat me........!! I WILL win ...... :finger:!!
    McTschegsn and blake7 like this.
  2. blake7

    blake7 Member

    From what I have seen of your work, you are doing a absolutely beautiful job on this model. I know you will win!thumbsup :Bravo:
    DanBKing likes this.
  3. DanBKing

    DanBKing Active Member

    Ok, let me explain why I have been getting grumpy ..... :grumpy::realmad:

    Very early on in the thread, I made an attempt at making the main antenna dish, but I was not happy with the outcome of it....
    I built this first version using the provided tabs. Due to finger pressure, (and probably too much glue,) I had the impressions of the tabs on the dish surface, which looked terrible.......

    So, I decided to try another approach .......

    Which is where my frustrating nightmare began .......:wacky::rage::grumpy::headbange:

    I decided to do the job without using tabs and also tried to "kill 2 birds with 1 stone"....

    The main antenna dish is made up of an outer and an inner set of three rings, (two for the smaller dishes.) Each of these inner and outer ring sets have textures that need to be accurately lined up to each other.
    So, to save time, (I thought,) (and this is where the bird-murder part comes in,) I decided to first glue the corresponding inner and outer ring pieces together back to back. This would give me three complete rings, with texture on both sides. These three rings could then be edge glued together to create the dish.

    I used my light table to accurately align and glue the two ring halves together. Please believe me when I say that the parts need to be SUPER ACCURATELY ALIGNED, and that is no under-statement! Taking into account that we are dealing with circular (ring) shaped parts, which have radii texturing, and also angled joints between each ring, plus the fact that I needed to make sure that the black cutting lines of each part were completely removed. To compound things even more in the process, the parts layout for the inner and outer ring pieces were unfortunately not good reverse-mirrored images, so the centre, the middle and outer parts had to be separately aligned. :(

    Naamloos.png General_359.JPG

    Once the glue had dried, I cut out the now two-sided parts. Cutting out an outside diameter is straightforward, the cutting of the inner diameter requires more skill with the scissors! I used a very fine sandpaper to smooth any bumps and roughness of the circular edges.


    Over the last week or so, I have done that whole process SIX *#@**#** times!!! :realmad::realmad:

    In theory, if the parts are correctly aligned, if I trim the part from one side, the reverse side should match exactly......

    Attempt 1: Alignment mismatch between sides, only noticeable during/after cutting. Parts Scrapped. :meh:

    Attempt 2: Alignment mismatch between sides, only noticeable during/after cutting. Parts Scrapped. :(

    Attempt 3: Alignment mismatch between sides, only noticeable during/after cutting. Parts Scrapped. (More beer and rolling papers purchased) :grumpy:

    Attempt 4: Alignment mismatch between sides on one part, only noticeable during/after cutting. One part Scrapped, two are good. Bad part successfully remade.

    We are talking pixel-level alignment here!

    Once I had a good set of inner and outer texture aligned parts, I used the water shaping method as used similarly before.


    Attempts 5 & 6: Re-making, cutting and shaping the parts twice, due to gluing errors, and/or texture alignment issues, and/or dirty (finger) marks, and/or bad joints, when gluing the rings to form the dish. :realmad::bulgeeye::sour:


    By now, I was swearing a hundred times without repeating myself, and also, I had a fist full of hair from tearing it out in frustration........... :rage::realmad::headbange::hammerhead::finger:

    I just could not seem to get the inner and outer textures aligned, nor the correct angles between the rings or good edge-glued joints.

    This build process just was not working for me. So, in frustration with it all, I called "TIME OUT", stood up, downed a beer, rolled a fat one and calmly walked to the manicurist for a haircut..... :lolsign:

    So, I decided to scrap my idea of a tab-less dish and again made the dish as designed by Master UHU, using tabs.
    First, I cut out and water shaped the outer rings and glued these together. Even with the tabs, this was not an easy task at all.
    In the pic the dish looks 'grubby', but most of this will be covered up anyway, so I am not too worried.


    Next up, the inner rings were cut and water-shaped. But these rings would not fit into the outer dish shell because of the thickness of the paper, so I had to carefully remove a few layers of paper from the inside of the outer shell to make the inner rings fit properly ......


    But anyway, I have eventually got a semi decent dish. I am only 80% happy with it, but there is no way I'm gonna build another one.
    I'm DONE with the damn thing!!!:mooner:


    At the moment, I am building up the other parts for the antenna array and am doing some improvements and detailing to the frame parts.
    When I get a little further with these parts I'll post some more......


  4. micahrogers

    micahrogers Active Member

    Okay Dan... you deserve a break.... A lesser modeler would have 86ed the whole contraption and moved on.
    In my case it would have been file 13G for it after the second FUBAR.
    If you're only 80% satisfied then you must be a closet perfectionist. The dish looks fine to me
    Revell-Fan and DanBKing like this.
  5. McTschegsn

    McTschegsn New Member

    Truly awesome Dan! Truly awesome. Sorry for not liking every post in this thread ;)
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  6. DanBKing

    DanBKing Active Member

    Thanks guys ........:happy:

    I've calmed down a bit now ....... ;):)
    Revell-Fan likes this.
  7. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator

    It is so good to know that you are calming down but, well, let me say, I don't want to pour more oil into the fire, but... this is what I had done:

    Building the inner rings without tabs completely.
    Assembling the inner rings to make the inner side of the dish.
    Then assembling the outer rings separately and attaching them without tabs to get the outer side of the dish.
    Aligning the two halves and glueing them together.

    Peut-être this could have saved you much trouble. Reason for my idea is, you'll end up with a series of concave / convex rings which have to be simply stacked together. In addition, you could have saved the water-shaping.


    (And I know exactly what you are thinking right now! ;) )
    DanBKing likes this.
  8. DanBKing

    DanBKing Active Member

    Good! ;)

    I for 1, am NOT going to do it again, in any way or form..... :Nonoooo: and besides the fact that I still have the two small dishes to do yet too....!

    I'm gonna PM you the parts sheet now ............... :biggrin:
    Have fun with it R-F !!! :biggrin:

    (Lemme know when you have completed it and I'll send you my snail-mail address ............ :lolsign:)
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2015
  9. zathros

    zathros SENIOR Administrator

    Do cut off all tabs. Apply strips on the backside to hold the parts together. They will not be on the same plane, and that will make the parts fall into place. Perfection cannot be reached on this plane of existence, but damn, you're close!! :)
  10. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator

  11. DanBKing

    DanBKing Active Member

    But in all seriousness, I am open to learning better methods.

    @Revell-Fan I would really like to see your technique in practice. If I can better what I have done, using a different methodology, then so much the better for the outcome..... But getting the textures accurately lined up, with all other factors considered, I did not find easy, in both ways I tried.

    Here's a deal: If you can pull it off, I will build another one using your technique. ;);)

    @zathros I sometimes wonder which plane of existence I am on half of the time .... :smoker:
  12. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator

    OK, pal! :)
    DanBKing likes this.
  13. DanBKing

    DanBKing Active Member

    You are brave! :eek:
    But, I have no doubt at all in your abilities.;)

    These are the points that I have been trying to achieve :-
    • All radial textures must be accurately aligned. Not only on the inner and the outer surfaces, but also in relation to each other.
    • Joints between the rings must be seamless and clean.
    • Final structure needs to be a smooth, rounded dish with no obvious transition between the rings.
    • A 'clean' build!

    Here are some inspirational photos, that I am using for reference.....

    14708333546_165b3eee4f_o.png 14708334606_94e048a6a1_o.png

    Also, to give you a hint where I am going further with this part of the build ....
    In the following pics is a test build of the frame piece. Compare the piece to the structure of the frame in the photos above. Rather lacking in my opinion ......

    General_370.JPG General_368.JPG

    So, I'm busy enhancing the frame.......:biggrin:


    I'll explain in more detail soon ...... ;)

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  14. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator

    OK. I have printed the parts and see what I can do. :)
    DanBKing likes this.
  15. DanBKing

    DanBKing Active Member

    Good luck! I'll be watching ...... ;):)
  16. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator

    Attempt #1:

    I cut out the single parts using a nail scissor. Then I scraped the remaining black outline off with the sharp edge of my cutter. I edge-glued the single circles together and then edge-glued the three circle elements to get the inner and outer half of the dish.

    Then I test-fitted if everything fits together. Unfortunately the glue wasn't dry on one of the halves yet so the halves sticked together like hell. It took me five minutes to separate the pieces again; fortunately without causing any damage.

    Last I glued the halves together and smoothed them by putting them on the carpet and rolling and pressing the grip of my sciccors into the inside of the dish.

    And this is my result:





    My conclusions:

    1. The camera does not lie. :explode:
    2. Yours looks better. :bowdown:
    3. I had no big problems aligning the pieces. I used the seams as guide lines. :cool:
    4. No big fitting issues; I work with 160 gsm paper.
    5. That black outline is really a pain... I wish it wasn't so thick. :headbange:
    6. I won't give up and make a few more attempts.
    7. I'm looking forward to your updates.

  17. zathros

    zathros SENIOR Administrator

    Vacu-form that piece. It wouldn't be hard, and if you used thick enough plastic (not too thick), and re-enforce the paper dish, you could probably use the paper dish for the form to suck the plastic one into! :)
  18. DanBKing

    DanBKing Active Member

    Nice work!!!! Claphands

    Yours is a lot cleaner than mine.........thumbsup

    And you are right. The black line is a pain in the 4$$.... When you trim it off, the part is then on its limit of tolerance. I found that using sandpaper to remove the last of the black line residue, results in a cleaner, less 'fluffy' joint. I used 400 grit wet&dry. At this scale, any rougher would be too much.

    I found that water shaping certainly helps in getting a smoother transition between the rings. I also found something that the dish fitted perfectly into, as a mold/form. I found this out by accident, when I dropped the dish and it landed in the thing........ I am at work at the moment, but when I get home later, I'll post a pic of what I am talking about. I just wish I had found this out before I had finished building the damn dish!!!! My life would of been a little less stressful. :hammerhead::biggrin:
    As I have mentioned many times already, it is unbelievable what I have used from my daily household items as jigs or building aids, in one form or another.
    I think I am gonna sell everything in my kitchen as 'Discovery Paper Model Building Jigs'. ;):biggrin:
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  19. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator

  20. DanBKing

    DanBKing Active Member

    As I mentioned yesterday .......... The dish fits so perfectly into it is almost was if it was made specifically for this job!!

    General_375.JPG General_374.JPG
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