Moved from HO

Discussion in 'Track Planning' started by insinu8, Dec 28, 2006.

  1. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

    I'm working on a plan...really, I am! Hang in there, and keep sketching!

    Uh...comments...with the sidings to the 'dock', you'll still essentially have gopher holes. That's just the first thing I noticed without any further study. Maybe more comments later when I post the plan.

  2. insinu8

    insinu8 Member

    I work on new plans every day, it just takes a while, so I totally understand! No worries :)

    Yah, I really got into it and it kept growing and growing. I need to simplify things a bit(or maybe a LOT!) and try it out...but that idea of going around the walls to get up and down to other levels is just TOO interesting to not try out somehow :D

  3. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

    Dokey Okey here goes

    Here 'tis. Version 1.0. Well, really I should call it 0.8 or something since it's not really fleshed out into a full plan. But hopefully the gist is there.

    View attachment 34001

    I was also thinking along the same lines as zedob about working some sort of crossing at the 36" corner. I then took it a bit further setting up a crossing at the other side and taking advantage of the remaining bits beyond the turnback curves along each wall.

    Grade is 3%. Not ideal, but you probably aren't going to be running very long trains here so it shouldn't be a problem. Curves are 24" minimum. Plan is drawn to 3/4" = 1'.

    There's one staging track (could be two at most on that shelf) beneath the mine 'switchback'. I envision the mine area as mountainous and rugged, standing in contrast to the urban area directly across the aisle.

    On the other side, as the main line rises along the east wall, a spur descends behind the turntable and roundhouse and ducks beneath the mainline (vs. the mine branch on the opposite side climbing over the main) to serve either the gravel industry or the intermodal facility. I'm picturing much of the elevated track on bridges with the long straight section on something like the 'city' viaducts from ME (I think...or is it city classics?...) to keep the turntable accessible and visible.

    Please note this plan is not at all fleshed out, it is just a rough sketch. Additional spurs could be added. Getting a yard on here, or any sort of passing track with good access is going to be tough, if not impossible as drawn. But already I'm thinking of a totally different option you may not like at all but would reflect a more realistic approach. SO chew on this plan and tell me what you think.


    Attached Files:

  4. insinu8

    insinu8 Member

    Thanks for the plan, Galen :) I like that there would be no crawling under for this. Do you think it is just too small a space to have three industries and a yard? Would it make any difference if I reclaim the extra 2' on the north and south walls that is currently closet space? I thought about putting the gravel mine right next to the coal mine since they'd most likely exist near each other (or do I need to stop sniffing this model glue?)
    That viaduct section is a mighty nifty idea. I like that a lot. I could add roads under there for the intermodal trucks to run on.

    Is it reasonable to think the coal might end up going to a dock for transport? I keep trying to figure out if I can combine them somehow...but they seem to be too different to combine.

    Is the space just left of the door big enough to expland for a larger staging area?

    I suspect if I want to run the ES44DC I may have to have a single point to point just for the intermodal stuff and use larger radii for it. (OR, I can just leave the poor beastie off the tracks as a learning lesson and stick to 4-axle engines). The coal and gravel will use shorter engines so 24" all around for that would be okay. But then I run into a problem with the grade being 3%. Grrr! Too many options! I can always run the shorter engines on larger radii, of course...

    I'm a total goofball...I didn't see that I can model 24" radii with this program...I'll have to give that a go since the overwhelming opinion is to NOT go smaller. Let me model this and see what it ends up looking like.

    Of course, now I'm thinking I should just extend into the sleeping bedroom and have one industry in there, but that's just crazy talk (until I own the place and can put holes through walls :)

    This is very exciting and fun! I like the input a lot, Galen.
  5. insinu8

    insinu8 Member


    Here is my electronic version:

    I'm curious about your "more realistic" option :)
  6. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

    Your electronic version is pretty close, except that the staging does not join the mine branch, the mine branch is above the staging track. Glad you like it.

    As for the other version...yes, reclaiming closet space could be useful, but then again you may want to use it for a workbench area. Where is that, btw? I'm asking because trying to fit it into the layout room would be another factor to consider, if you're assuming that's where it would be under the layout somewhere.

    Also, here's a theoretical thought...some layouts are like DNGN pipes. You know, those "Do Nothing Go Nowhere" pipes on refinery models that serve the purpose of making it look busy and visually interesting but really serve no prototype purpose or rather, are not models of any working piping. These layouts are great for visual interest and plenty of trackage, whether it 'operates' (in a remotely prototypical manner) or not. Lionel layouts are often this way. Not knocking them, it's just a different way to enjoy the hobby.

    There's a theory in the hobby press circulating around and being propogated like gospel that says folks will grow tired of just watching trains run in a loop and eventually will want some sort of operation as interests 'mature'. Well, this may be true for some folks who really are 'operators' at heart and just haven't discovered it yet. But for many folks who want a layout to run some trains however they want to (and aren't about to be told the way they should run them by some high-falutin' magazine from wisconsin or jersey or wherever), a loop of track (or two or three) is just fine.

    My point is this - spend some time looking online at the other layouts out there. Many times you'll find layouts on the internet that the hobby rags won't publish because they aren't beautiful, like fashion models and the 'beautiful people' out there in the world. That's one reason I love The Gauge. Here, just about anything goes. Then see if you find yourself leaning one way or the other, or being drawn to certain styles of layouts. Once you get an idea of what you like then study those layouts to see what makes them work and why they appeal to you. This vision, more than any published or suggested track plan, can and will guide your modeling more than anything.

  7. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

    Oh...just noticed in your electronic version...the window sill and blinds. Do these stick into the room? And if so, how far?

  8. insinu8

    insinu8 Member

    The window sill sticks out about 1", but the blinds, when open, stick out 4" from the wall. So, it would be advantageous to leave a wee bit of room for them or it will either be a permanent cave or always open to whatever the prevailing outside light conditions are.
  9. insinu8

    insinu8 Member

    Uh oh.... did not think of a work area at all! :(
    I guess I'd have to use something like shelving under the frame?

    I think I'd rather have trackage that is useful most, if not all, of the time. I want to be able to do switching in a yard, drop off empties and pick up fulls at mines, move anything and everything from place to place if I felt like it, regardless of whether it makes sense or not. I feel like the scenery is there to be static...not the trains or track.

    I'm really torn about this aspect. I am afraid I'm one of those people who likes to run it however I feel like it, prototyping be damned. And yet, the realism IS important, but not the primary focus for me (yet?)

    I've been looking at track layouts for months and months :) It's a lot of fun to see all the variations that people come up with, and to what extent they've managed to remain prototypical, or not. I suppose I should mention that I'm actually building a layout during all of this so I have something to have "fun" with while my sinister plot unfolds. But, of course, I'm doing all this backwards. I've built up a set of tables to allow for as much access as I can manage and then I'll lay out some track to see what all I can build on it (in software first for sizing & proper angles, etc). Then I move the pieces around on the tables to see what it would look like in "real life" (more or less)...I keep doing this over and over until I come up with bits and pieces I like and then hopefully something complete will materialize. That's what all this planning and cries for help are about...the second genertion attempt. I figure I'll learn a lot as I build up and tear down the temporary track and try new things in the mean time.

    So all your help and that from the other folks is greatly appreciated. I'm picking up more and more and it's making a lot more sense. I would say the best thing is that there's no judging of what's right or wrong and everyone is interested in helping someone new develop whatever they've got in mind. That's a really great feeling and I thank you for it.
  10. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

    :) :) :) Let's see some pics of that other layout you're working on!:) :) :)

  11. insinu8

    insinu8 Member

    I'll try to get some pictures this weekend. What do you use to make them small enough to post here? Every time I try to post a picture it's either too big dimensionally or too big in kb :(
  12. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

    I use photoshop to resize 'by the numbers (640x480, whichever way it fits, one dimension usually ends up smaller) although lately I've figured out how to set my digital camera to take 'internet' sized (640x480) pictures that are almost always under the max file size. Then when I've resized the dimesions I 'save as...' and it asks me for a file quality and I usually select medium to small in order to get it down under the max file size. If it's not, then I can save it again with a lower setting until it's right.

    The other method I've seen but not used is to store your photos on a site like photobucket and link to it.

  13. insinu8

    insinu8 Member


    Here are pics of the room and the practice layout I'm goofing around with to keep me entertained while I build the "real" one :)

    This shows the right side of a simple loop with the turnouts I'm using to store my locos:
    View attachment 34043

    Here's the whole loop on two 48" x 48" tables...there's another one just out of the picture to the right and a 4th being you can see...lots of blue foam!
    View attachment 34044

    Here is a picture of the underframe. I build the tops by hand and the supports I got at IKEA because I remembered seeing them there once and I like that the height can be adjusted. Also, the whole thing can be broken into parts and moved or stored.
    View attachment 34045

    Attached Files:

  14. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

    Oh yeah, man! I really dig those groovy supports! Seriously, if I didn't already have a pile of good lumber to use, a box of screws and a decent saw (with the closest Ikea is a few hours away in Seattle...) I'd try and get my hands on some of those!

    Looks like you're having some fun, and the picture of the room is helpful in planning. IN FACT, it was the knowledge of the mirror that inspired my crazy idea and now that I see it I've gotta do it! Perhaps tonight, we'll see.

  15. Russ Bellinis

    Russ Bellinis Active Member

    What dept does Ikea sell those supports in? I bought the Ivar unfinished pine bookshelves at Ikea for my basic benchwork with shelves under neath and layout on top. I've never seen those supports, and I thought I'd seen everything they stock!
  16. insinu8

    insinu8 Member


    They are called "Vika Artur". The numbers on the box are: 880.574.09 and 18229 (dunno which is the P/N) I bought 8 of them figuring I'd use two per table top and they make a pretty darn stable frame.
  17. Russ Bellinis

    Russ Bellinis Active Member

    Thanks, I'm going to have to look into those. I've been thinking about what I would use to set my layout benchwork slightly above the Ivar shelves to allow clearance for wiring and switch linkages.
  18. insinu8

    insinu8 Member

    What do you think of this? I messed with your first's cropped a bit on the bottom to make it the right dimensions to post here, so add about 9" of track to the bottom of the intermodal yard... the double main line will run into tunnels on the west wall and look like they keep going into the mirrors on the east...incoming and outgoing traffic into my little hub, just like my imagined story :) There is 20-22" walkaround space across the entire south wall up to the intermodal yard. All curves are 24". I wish I could work some bridges in there somewhere....not sure if I'm thiking tunnels for the under/over or bridges... the mainline is the highest ground with the gravel and IM yard at the lowest points and the coal in between. I was thinking of having a freeway access on the south wall to accommodate all the trucking traffic from the IM yard...

    View attachment 34052

    Whatcha think?

    Attached Files:

  19. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

    Dude! I really like the new plan. The grades are gonna be high, like 3% plus (probably) but that's just something to live with. The turntable located over next to the 'mainline' and other turnouts is great.

    Aisles may be a bit could give a bit more room if you used 22" radius on the 'back' curves and stayed with 24" on the front curves. What I mean is this old adage - use broader curves where you will most often view trains from outside the curve and tighter, smaller curves where trains will be seen most often from 'inside' the curve, or across the curve. Just a visual trick that can save space.

    Another thought...the gravel facility doesn't have to be a mine. Trucks can bring in the gravel for grading and loading into railcars. Just be sure to include a good road in and out of the place with a scale house for weighing those trucks.

    With this in mind, if you could switch the gravel loader and coal mine then the east side of the layout could take on a more urban feel with the west side looking more backwoodsy. I don't know of too many coal mines downtown near the docks...but it's your world! You create it however you want.

    Oh, and nice use of the mirror, btw.

  20. insinu8

    insinu8 Member

    Could you show me which curves you would consider changing to 22"? I know the access would be a bit tight, but I'm torn about sacrificing the 24" curves for a couple extra inches. I had a wicked idea about using the north end of the closet for a staging area for the incoming & outgoing trains...but maybe later :)

    Thanks for the encouragement! I still want to see your other crazy idea :)

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