Logging East Tennessee on the C&S RR

Discussion in 'Logging, Mining and Industrial Railroads' started by Doctor G, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. allaboutkevin

    allaboutkevin New Member

    Hey there Doc, I hope you don't mind, I shared your link with people whom were asking questions in the www.nscale.org forum whom were asking about logging railways. Your's is definately the best I have seen. I hope you don't mind this.

  2. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

    Hi Kevin,

    Glad to share. One of the reasons I did the big photo spread was we had been planning a move and the RR could not come with us to our "downsized" place.

    In fact a week ago I took apart the layout and donated about 5000 trees to our local RR club.

    So the only place the C&S exists anywhere is on cyberspace.

    So sadly the HO logger is history but part of the fun with the move is the nice fenced in backyard perfect for a "large scale" Garden RR at the new place. It is here that †he next model of a logging RR will take shape. I will be modeling the prototypical Little River Rail Road which was the inspiration of the C&S.

    Literally model railroads are never finished.

    Doc Tom:wave:
  3. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    Not prototype modeling!

    So the only place the C&S exists anywhere is on cyberspace.

    So sadly the HO logger is history but part of the fun with the move is the nice fenced in backyard perfect for a "large scale" Garden RR at the new place. It is here that †he next model of a logging RR will take shape. I will be modeling the prototypical Little River Rail Road which was the inspiration of the C&S.

    . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Doc Tom:wave:[/quote]

    Time for a reality check Tom!. Large scale in the garden gets you a long long way from prototype modeling. With the large scale stuff the modeler is forced into even more bad compromises than the HO scale modeler is. So much so that prototype modeling becomes nearly impossible.

    You may be operating equipment that might have Little river painted on it, but that is all. You are not likely to find a 2-4-4-2, or a little pacific. The Little River's pacific was the smallest standard gauge pacific operated in the U.S. Nothing aproaching it has been produced in any scale.

    You also have to realize that that cool Bachman large scale stuff are all models of 3 foot narrow gauge stuff. the more recent offerings are in 1-22.5 scale, in which the track correctly portrays 3 foot narrow gauge. Bachman originally made thier large stuff to the same scale that LGB used. That scale 1-24? was started by LGB to use that gauge of track to model European meter gauge narrow gauge trains. When LGB introduced American prototype equipmet, they used the same scale as thier European stuff, so the models might be correctly scaled in every feature, except the gauge of the wheels.

    Thus the large scale models produced can create all kinds of strange combos. the old Bachman stuff, and the newer stuff, are made to different scales. Some companies make stuff that runs on the same track that are models of american standard gauge equipment, so an ungodly hodgepodge of scales three or more, show up occasionaly on the same track. Most of the buildings available are made to the LGB scale, so unless you have deep pockets, or do some scratchbuilding, large scale modeling is going to force you into compromises you wouldn't even consider calling prototype modeling in HO.

    So when you take that into account, allong with the fact that in garden railroading , whe are forced to use the terrain we have, we can't alter it without a lot of work or $$, when we play with trains in the yard, that is what we are doing. We will be better of if we realize that to start with, and plan for it, so we don't let the concepts od prototype modeling, learned in the HO world contamanate your new efforts in the yard.

    and the C&S Isn't gone, it looks like it's rolling stock and locomotives have been aqurred by th J. E. Patterson Coal and Lumber Co. < which now has enough log cars! So C&S equipment will be operating again sa sood as we can dig out of the current reconstructions at the Club!

    Bill Nelson
  4. steamhead

    steamhead Active Member

    Doc...I'm dismayed..!! :sad::sad:
    To think that beautiful railroad is gone just didn't make my day. Sorry to see it go (went...).
    As for your next project....go to it, and keep us posted....:thumb:
  5. ytter_man

    ytter_man Member

    Awww :(

    I'm definitely glad we got to see it before it went byebye!

    Say, how big a piece of property do you have? A 5" gauge ride-on would be fun sign1

    Best of wishes with your next endeavors!
  6. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

    Hey Bill,

    Very insightful commentary.

    Thought you might enjoy this article from the newspaper in Townsend Tennessee. They were pretty excited that Mr Bachmann slappped the Little River RR moniker on one of those three foot Shays of his.

    By Rick Laney
    of The Daily Times Staff

    The train outside the Little River Railroad and Lumber Company Museum in Townsend, called a Shay, has been reproduced as a 1:20.3-scale model by Bachmann Industries of Philadelphia.

    The large-scale model Shay, which is about 32 inches long and includes electronic sound effects, was released by the model train company this month.

    "I was looking through the April 2007 issue of Model Railroader Magazine and couldn't believe what I saw," said Rick Turner, the president of the Little River Railroad and Lumber Company nonprofit group that operates the museum.

    "One of our board members used to make an add-on kit for model train enthusiasts. He ran into some of the Bachmann Industries people at a train show, and they started talking.

    "I hadn't seen the model train until I was looking at that magazine. I saw the '2147' on the side and knew it was ours."

    The number is the unique locomotive number for the Shay 2147 owned by the museum in Townsend.

    "That train started everything for us back in 1982," Turner said. "It was sitting over in Robinsville, N.C., being used for parts. They had it scheduled to be scrapped.

    "We brought it back and cleaned it up. We painted it and re-lettered it. It helps get people into the museum."

    Yes I know its not a true prototype but should be fun to run particularly with throttle in one hand and a beer in the other outside on a warm summer night.

    We should start a new thread here on the creation of the J E Patterson Coal and Lumber Company......just as soon as I unpack that digital camera.

    Doc Tom:wave:

    Attached Files:

  7. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    On couplers , are you planning on using the bachman knuckle couplers, or K'd's I havent't played with the Kd's yet, I have a couple of pairs of knucle couplers around that I got to replace them horrible loop & hook style that were on the original big hauler train sets.

    And speaking of them, I have a recent, track powered Bachman Ten wheeler. It's from the same moulds as the batery radio control one. This one is painted up for the north pole RR os some such ****. My sister Judy told me my dad wanted it, Christmass before last, and being a dutiful son, I jumped at the chance to get my dad the train set he wanted. After Dad passed away, Judy packed me off with the set which I set up this christmass under the tree. To my great suprise the locomotive ran extrordanarily well, athough I could not get the rudimentry sound system to work. It will need to get a paint job, and possibly a conversion to Radio control , but it runs very well, and will crawl.

    Are you planning to have a track going into a shed, sho that you can easily get cars and locomotives secured , and out of the weather?

    Bill Nelson
  8. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

    Hi Bill,

    Been reading everything I can on Guage #1 large scale railroading. I would like to try to use the KD couplers.

    Bill this interesting old house we are moving in to has a shed in the backyard with electricity and a work area already. It will be the LRRR train shed and shops. Track will enter this little building. Kit and I have been talking about making this a 1/4 replica of the Walland Station. Walland Station was the start of the Little River RR and has been moved to the LRRR museum in Townsend. In fact it is their main building at the museum. See the picture below.

    In my reading the Bachmann 10 wheelers in the Christmas sets are very good models and good runners.

    Doc Tom:wave:

    Attached Files:

  9. allaboutkevin

    allaboutkevin New Member

    Very generous of you to donate those trees. I especially like the use of the fishing equipment (swivels) on the high line tree... If you don't mind I am going to 'borrow' that idea... I also love the donkey's... going to try to meet the 'Doc' standard, but don't know if I can get there.... Just a small sample of where I am at... I only have a two foot section started above my modern British Columbia Railway layout, but this is what is is looking like so far... (PS I also love the tracks through the river... looked great!!!) It is indeed a sad day..


    Attached Files:

  10. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

    Hi Kevin,
    Thanks for the nice comments.
    I got the ideas for the fishing swivels from my friend and fellow logging nut Bill Nelson. I suspect he will be along here shortly to expound on rigging logging spar trees etc.

    Bill and I are slowly expanding the logging operations on our local RR club layout here in beautiful Clarksville Tennessee. That is where a good portion of the old C&S will show up. I am hoping we can start posting a little story about this endeavor here on Zealot.

    Love that little Shay of yours. I had always wanted to see an "n" scale Shay. Your layout is coming along nicely!!!!!

    Doc Tom:wave:
  11. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

    Hey Doc sad to hear about the end of your great layout but at the same time excited about your new endeavor of Garden RR. I know what its like tearing down your little empire. Being a self employed carpenter & today's economy I'm not sure how soon I can start another layout. I have been tempted to start building some things as sections to be put together or added to at a later time. I am 54 & getting tired of using the magnifier & like the idea of GRR. Can you imagine actually having a real creek with running water & real rocks! We camp down at Elkhorn once or twice a year & I can look at those creeks all day. Scratch building with GRR would be very exciting. I use a lot of cedar & redwood that would be very useful in GRR. With all these thoughts & planning I bet you have trouble sleeping at night. Well keep us posted & Happy GRRing.
  12. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

    Hey Sawdust,
    Good to hear from you.

    I am 56 and agree that the "Big Trains" are really easier on the eyes!!!

    I too am fascinated by building something outside and taking on the forces of nature like the real railroads do.

    Your skills with woodworking would be a real asset particularly in bridge building and trestles. The reading I have done shows considerable use of cedar and redwoods in building these big structures.

    I will keep an avid interest in HO as we have a great big club layout that crys out for scenery, my favorite pasttime.

    I hope Bill and I can start a thread on the club layout here on Zealot.

    Doc Tom:wave:
  13. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Active Member

    I'm curious, and not knowledgable about outdoor railroads - a bad combination. In addition, there have been some magazine articles lately about even HO and O modelers moving their layouts outdoors.

    How are things like the electrical supply to the tracks handled?

    I know the last one I visited, at the Railroad Museum in Boulder, wasn't working due to electrical problems secondary to weather.
  14. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

    Hey Mountain Man,

    Great questions.

    The 10 amp transformer is kept in the house or in the "train shed" and the low voltage lines travel through conduit to the rails. I will use Aristo Craft's train engineer radio controller to control the juice to the tracks. Two wires from the transformer and two wires from the radio receiver to the track. Very simple and safe.

    Yes, in particular O scale trains have been run in the gardens of England for almost 100 years. Apparently Lionel's lineup kept Americans away from Garden Railroading until LGB took off 20-30 years ago.

    Looking forward to this new adventure.

    Doc Tom:wave:
  15. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Active Member

    And the British use the same basic system?

    Forgive my ignorance in this area, but I know that Britain uses 240v current and is extremely wet compared to a lot of American locales.
  16. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    elements of the C&S survive @ the club

    before the C&S closed up, we were way short of log cars and trees @ the Clarskville Model train club. No More!

    Dr Tom carried in four big boxes of vegitation salvaged from the C&S, and gas been busy with them. it especialy shows @ the near side of the first peninsula, where I had carved a bunch of rocks, which had been looking sadly barren for years. No More!

    Tom has been after me to do some photography, and so here is the first installment. which is also the best scenery on the layout. at the end of the peninsula at least, It's mostly Dr. Tom's and my work, and as you well know we are the best! (and modest too). The plate girder bridge needs some timber trestle bents under it, but I haven't made them yet, Dave did the scenery here, and did very well for a beginner.

    Bill Nelson

    Attached Files:

  17. ytter_man

    ytter_man Member

    Looks great, cant wait to see more :thumb:
  18. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

    There's nothing "greener" than recycling trees! It's too bad no one ever pushed for legislation to make that happen in "real life"!
    In real life it takes decades to "replace" the trees, clear cut, to make building that housing development, easier.
    110V isn't really any safer, which is why transformers are used to reduce the voltage to safer levels for our models.(if I've just fallen victim to "common knowledge syndrome", I know it, so, therefore, everyone else should know it, forgive me. I've worked with electricity/electronics for most of my life.) The bigger problem is with wetness, shorting out the tracks....nothing runs.
    Ballast, in garden railroads, takes on a whole new importance. It not only has to hold the track in place, but it has to be able to draw off the water from the rails, and dry out rapidly.
  19. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

    Recycling trees and a logging layout

    Hi Guys,
    Really appreciate that my good buddy Bill got some pictures up of the recycled trees from the old C&S RR up on this esteemed site.

    It is nice seeing all that greenery in use. Here are a couple more shots of our club layout that is slowly being converted in to one giant logging and coal mining show by two devious members.

    Thinking about starting another separate thread here to chronicle the activities of these two logging nuts and their nefarious activities.

    Dr Tom :twisted:

    Attached Files:

  20. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    a newer pic of the shay

    that picture of the shay is old. here is a newer photo of the shay @ it's new assignment , The Altamont mine. This is the big mine. I just got it put back together after it was re-kitted by some lumber shifting in the back of my suburban. this mine is on the far top shelf, which has been barren except for a hodgepodge of old mostly *******y buildings that were stored there. Tom in his recent cleaning binge, removed everything that might not belong in a mining / logging Company town.

    Next there is a picture of the beginning of the logging yard on the back side of the first peninsula; that's the picture with Thomas in it.

    Then there is the picture with the logging engine house, and the narrow gauge turntable in the foreground.

    then there is part of the logging branch and a string of cars, an arssortment of leftovers from the DC,CC,& W, the C&S, and the remains of John Patterson's Mud Creek & Eastern.

    then there is the logging camp, which you get to via a switchback over near the falls.

    Bill Nelsn

    Attached Files:

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