I wanna try the LM...

Discussion in 'Space & Aeronautics' started by Tonino, Nov 5, 2014.

  1. zathros

    zathros SENIOR Administrator

    Tonino wrote: "Thank you guys! :D I really love the way you feel here. You give a real boost to my modeling activities!"

    I have to reply that your in depth instruction and demonstration, proven with fantastic photos boost this forum exponentially, as you have reached many with this thread.

    Which is why this thread must, and now has become, and will remain, a "Sticky". :)
  2. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    Thank you @zathros, I'm deeply honored to be glued in the top of the page together with such a great artist as @mk310149.
    I will do my best to keep this thread worthy of the great consideration you gave me.

    Wow! This is my first "sticky one"... great! :woot:

    well... before going on with the feared "cage" I must correct a little mistake I did. I cannot tolerate the view of it!
    DSC06757.JPG DSC06758.JPG
    Despite all my efforts I wasn't able to avoid two big gaps just in the front of the module in a place where they are really visible.

    Fortunately I already had my "spare page for mistakes..." and could cut away two little sections with the exact shape and size of the gaps (took the contour with a pencil on a little crop of cardboard).

    DSC06772.JPG DSC06773.JPG
    The result is far from perfect but much less visible than before.

    Now let's go on with the hard work! ... ... ...
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  3. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    There will be a lot of cutting to do!
    As ever, but much more important for this part of the work, the edge painting is fundamental to achieve the best looking for the "tubes"

    This will be a very fragile thing to handle...

    and... after a lot of cutting and painting...

    A nice trick to avoid to break the thinner "tubes" is to make little holes with a needle near the center of the "X".
    This way, when the blade reaches the center of the cross, it stops in the little hole and doesn't go further.

    After some blade replacement... (this work is to be done with a perfectly sharp cutter).

    Nice, isn't it?

    As the tubes are of different colours, is important to do a precise edge painting with a color as close as possible to the original (I went to the artist shop with a spare page and did some test "on site" until I've found the perfect pens for the work).

    Very important also is to give the correct shape to parts 222 and 223.
    Fortunately @uhu02 gave us a reference guide to do this work.
    I also reinforced the folding points with little drops of glue to fix the angles in the correct position.
    This will help a lot in the next phase of the build.
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  4. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator

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  5. zathros

    zathros SENIOR Administrator

    Funy how a hole can relieve stress. There is a trick used in engines, especially antique ones, where an engine head or block cannot be found or made. You drill a hole a the end of the crack, going just a tiny bit past the crack in depth, the press a plug into it. .001" interference fit, the machine plug flat with surface. This has saved countless engines. It also works with glass. The energy goes around the hole, and does not let the crack continue. Fun stuff, crazy stuff! :)
  6. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    I don't remember to have heard this before but, perhaps, I did and my "hole trick" is just an unconscious recall of a forgotten memory... as you said... fun stuff, crazy stuff! :)
  7. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    ...the cage... part 2
    I will give you my personal interpretation of this complex build. I don't say this is the only possible way to proceed, I just tell you how I did it. Let me know your impression about this sequence of operations... especially if you did this build in another way.

    I think it's best to fix one (or few) point at a time to have a solid support if you have to stretch the part in some way. The best thing is to fix the part that stays in place by itself, without need of fixing help, and then, once glue has dried, you can fix in place the other extremities and fix them with glue. I hope I can explain myself with my poor English.
    In this case first of all I glued the two upper fixing points. Then, once they are stable, I blocked the lower section of part 224 against parts 226 and 227 which tended to stay a little too downward.

    DSC06752.JPG DSC06753.JPG DSC06754.JPG
    Same thing for part 225 to the rear. First I fixed the upper two points and after that the lower part of the "tubes". This is important to keep the two main element of the "cage" parallel each other.

    before applying the lateral elements I made two little tabs to act as a support point because I've seen that the braces of parts 222 and 223 are closer than the two tabs which they are meant to be attached.

    I started with the right side (instead of the left as UHU did) because I cut and prepared part 222 (chose the lower number first) but I don't think this is important.
    The first horizontal connector - 229a - is glued to part 222 before placing this on the LM.

    Then I glued the 222 to my additional tabs. Only in a second time, once upper points are dried, I glued lateral edges (in the photo they are still loose).
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  8. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    For the 229b and the following I preferred to glue first the outer edges and then the innner connection points. This because sometimes it's necessary to adjust a little the shape of part 222 and keep it in the correct place while glue it's drying. Having a solid support from the external points (1 in the photo) consent to stretch a little the parts to assume the right shape while glue in the inner points (2 in the photo) is drying.

    This time, for example, I'm keeping the 229c in place (outer extremities are already fixed) while inner points are drying.

    Part 229d in place

    And part 229e as well

    DSC06771.JPG DSC06775.JPG
    For the part 229f I decided to cut away the vertical braces because they should have doubled braces already provided on parts 224 and 225. They should occupy the same space: one of them was exceeding.


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  9. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    229i and 229j (sorry I forgot to take a photo with 229i alone...)

    For the last one, 229k, I had some troubles. The terminal part (on the left in the photo) was going to arrive in a spot where there was no passage thru existing structures. The photos on UHU web page are not clear about this and no photo of the real thing was useful at this purpose. Finally I cut the external section of part 229k and placed it in another way that - perhaps - is not correct and not documented, but it's the only way I was able to fit it.

    DSC06813.JPG DSC06814.JPG DSC06815.JPG
    The right side of the "cage" is done.
    You cannot imagine How I feel now that it's done!
    I just can't take my eyes off.......! :woot:
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2015
  10. zathros

    zathros SENIOR Administrator

    Your pictures speak for themselves. Biggest cause of breakage on small parts is a dull blade. On many of these parts I use scissors. I have a great set of Micro Scissors that are able to cut without warping the paper. :)
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  11. micahrogers

    micahrogers Active Member

    Truly wonderful work on the Master's design, you are making this model come alive.
    Tonino likes this.
  12. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    A little update...

    Part 232 gave me some worries. Looking at UHU's photos I wasn't able to figure how to proceed with this piece. I didn't want to fold the parts before cutting. I prefer to cut while the piece is on a plane and only in a second time to make the folds. To better understand the shape and to make some folding/cutting tests I printed a copy on plain paper and played with it until I was pretty confident with that complex structure...
    On the right my test print...

    I tell you how I choose to proceed, as always, this is only my point of view... just to share my interpretation of this strange piece. Anyone can suggest alternative procedure.

    I started folding and pasting the "N" shaped pieces you see in lower part of the photo. I cut away the upper section (you see it in the photo indicated by arrows) because it was going to duplicate some "tubes" of part 232b.

    Cut away the central window and prepared part 232b to glue it to the other side flush with window internal border.

    Glued part 232b and cut away all "triangles" from "N" shaped parts

    Folded and glued remaining part of the structure

    ...almost done...

    DSC06848.JPG DSC06849.JPG DSC06850.JPG
    All the "tubes" are folded in position. The little black triangles help give the right angle where the tubes are to be glued together. Some little adjustments was made putting it on the main body and this new "cage" is ready for mounting... the two black bars will be removed before mounting the cage on the LM, they just help to maintain the right shape.

    Now let's go on with RCS...
    ASC Mclaren likes this.
  13. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    I'm always inventing new ways to keep in shape tubes and cones while glue's drying.

    A LOT of little cones to do. If you don't like to build cones stay away from RCS!!!

    All the parts ready for the last detailing phase of the ascent module...

    DSC06863b.JPG DSC06864b.JPG
    Close up of rear RCS supports. They are very fragile! I put a lot of glue in the point where "tubes" are connected because they seem to me very weak to hold on...

    ASC Mclaren and DanBKing like this.
  14. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    ooooops! I completely forgot to upload photos of left side of the cage...
    Excuse me for this unintentional space/time warp...

    As the procedure is basically the same as for the right side I don't repeat all the talking... just few images for your reference:

    DSC06818.JPG DSC06820.JPG DSC06822.JPG DSC06824.JPG

    And this is the - long feared - cage. Complete!

    DSC06827.JPG DSC06828.JPG DSC06829.JPG DSC06830.JPG


    Now that it's done I can say that the work was not so difficult as it appeared at the beginning.
    It's something like a wooden sailship: when you see all that rigging you are amazed by the sight. All those ropes going around: it seems a very complex work to do.
    But if you actually do it, you discover that all you have to do is to put one piece at a time. Every piece has its position and, one after other, in no time, you find yourself with the work done and you don't know how it's happened... you can only stare at your model and ask yourself: "Did - I - make this???"
    ASC Mclaren and micahrogers like this.
  15. DanBKing

    DanBKing Active Member

    WOW!! That is some intricate work.
    It looks fantastic. Super clean!
    Keep it up!
    Tonino likes this.
  16. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    Well... finally it's done. After having placed antennas and RCS (all glued in place, as I don't plan to cover all this work with the exterior "skin" but will leave the LM in "naked" version) the ascent stage can be considered a finished thing! Perhaps I will try to add some more detail later (EVA antenna, docking target, handrails, and other things that are designed to be fixed on external surface...I will study something for them as I don't want to miss any detail...) but for the moment this phase - according to UHU's sequence of operations - is complete!

    Now let's go on with the descent stage. :)

    DSC06868.JPG DSC06869.JPG DSC06870.JPG DSC06871.JPG DSC06872.JPG DSC06873.JPG DSC06874.JPG DSC06875.JPG
    Last edited: May 14, 2015
  17. micahrogers

    micahrogers Active Member

    My God, that is beautiful.... wipes tear from eye....
    Tonino likes this.
  18. DanBKing

    DanBKing Active Member

    Micha is correct. BEAUTIFUL work!
    Tonino likes this.
  19. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    A little update, I cannot wait to see my baby on his legs... let's start with the descent stage.

    DSC06876.JPG DSC06878.JPG
    I was very proud of my first cut & paste work with the descent engine support when, at a second glance... AAAAAAAGHHH!!!! :mad:
    I realize I've cut away (and trashed) the two tabs provided to fix the engine to the walls.
    Not a great problem after all... except for the long search for the lost tabs between all the scraps recovered from my trash bin.
    Finally found them and attached to the walls to act as a little step to keep the engine frame in the right position.

    All engine components after a little pre-mounting

    DSC06884.JPG DSC06885.JPG DSC06886.JPG DSC06887.JPG
    And the engine ready to be placed in the "central square". Very nice: this is really a model in the model...

    DSC06888.JPG DSC06889.JPG
    The frame is placed on my little "emergency steps" letting me close the first element of the QUADs structure.
  20. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    UHU played a little joke on me this time... I saw those thin lines crossing two of the red circles and thought they are some kind of tubing and did a lot of attention to let them intact cutting all around carefully. Then I studied the next phases of the build and realized they are only reference lines to help placing a part later (the 255)... some work for nothing...

    After having painted gray the inner face of part 250 I realized I have another copy of it. I cut four squares and placed them inside to have some texture even if probably it will barely visible at the end.

    DSC06893.JPG DSC06894.JPG
    This is the underside ... and the inside ready for the tanks.

    DSC06892.JPG DSC06896.JPG
    Adding some details to QUAD II. Here will be placed the ALSP... later

    Now it's time to do some more tanks (honestly I am starting to hate gas tanks... :bored: )
    Last edited: May 24, 2015

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