I wanna try the LM...

Discussion in 'Space & Aeronautics' started by Tonino, Nov 5, 2014.

  1. Rhaven Blaack

    Rhaven Blaack ADMINISTRATOR Administrator

    I do not know what to really say to that, other than "THANK YOU"!
    Tonino likes this.
  2. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    Hi all... here I am with some micro-building done...
    a lot of pieces ready to be stored in my little mid-section...

    an advice to any future builder: the page 21 (backside for 19) has a grey area to color rear of some parts.
    Well, the grey rectangle is somewhat too small and my parts 51a and 51b were half grey and half white...
    DSC06182.JPG DSC06183.JPG
    I had to reprint page 19 and create a custom "expanded grey" page 21 to have all part regularly "grayed"

    And finally I can put all the stores in the shelf...
    Ready to fill my LM...
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2014
  3. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    I'm doing some experiment with the net. I wasn't very convinced by UHU02 proposal. His one seems a little bit oversized watching to original photos. Moreover, after some try, I realized it was very difficult to wrap all the objects without covering them too much. I tried a simplified approach placing the net only on the rear wall. I tried to place some little strips realized with self-adhesive plastic to simulate the webbing visible in the mission photos.
    DSC06194.JPG DSC06195.JPG DSC06198.JPG DSC06199.JPG DSC06200.JPG DSC06201.JPG
    Really I'm not satisfied of this solution.
    1) it's still oversized
    2) it's very difficult to place it in the little space available
    3) it covers some of my previous work
    I think I will choose to not placing the net at all...
  4. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    This thread should be titled "I am building the LM, and doing a Helluva job on it too!" :)
    Tonino likes this.
  5. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    OK now that is time to close the two halves of mid section I have to take a decision.
    I won't put the net in my model. If I make it in correct scale it will be so thin to be barely visible. If I make it overscaled it will be too much intrusive and will penalize my work on the rear wall.
    Better to have a free view on the inside. I will consider if putting some piece of the net in the front, on the top of the ECS, in a position that is visible but not covering other parts of the work.

    Here are some views of the finished mid section before I close it.
    DSC06206.JPG DSC06210.JPG DSC06213.JPG DSC06215.JPG DSC06216.JPG

    And some part already cut and ready for the next step.
  6. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    Slow progressing... had very busy days...
    I completed placing all those tubes... was very scared from this part but it was easier then I expected.
    Then I started with all those little rectangles around the entrance corridor. While I was pasting one piece after another a question was hanging over me: why I'm doing this work as it will closed inside and completely invisible? I think the answer is "I will know that all those details are there inside and this is enough..." This is one of the things that modeler's wives cannot understand...
    DSC06218.JPG DSC06222.JPG
    A WARNING to any future LM builder: ... I realized ONLY NOW that I forgot to open that little cut in the upper section of part 1 (just under the rectangle with the number 198). There is a little red line, I just didn't notice it. That opening is needed to keep in place the front part of the cockpit (when it will be done) so now I must open it somewhat without ruining any of the previous work... Beware, don't forget to study ALL the building before starting to cut and paste...
  7. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    Building ascent engine. No big problems except handling some VERY LITTLE parts (like 72 for example).
    I had some trouble trying to put the completed engine in place. The space between engine mounting frames (parts 17, 18, 19, 20) was too tight (perhaps my misplacing error) so I had to sand a little the mounting fixtures (71 and 72). You can see the "notch" in the photos...
    DSC06240.JPG DSC06241.JPG DSC06243.JPG DSC06245.JPG DSC06246.JPG DSC06247.JPG DSC06248.JPG DSC06249.JPG

    Now go on with next phase: the tanks on the left side.

    First of all I didn't like the round black circles to simulate the holes on part 77 so I opened all the holes with my punch & die kit...
    DSC06250.JPG DSC06251.JPG
  8. Rhaven Blaack

    Rhaven Blaack ADMINISTRATOR Administrator

    This is really coming together nicely.
    You are doing a GREAT JOB on this project.
    Everything looks clean and crisp.
    Tonino likes this.
  9. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    It really is awesome! You have done a fantastic job on this. :)
  10. RonaldoM

    RonaldoM Member

    That's great. Nice to see these pictures
  11. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    I'm a little late to say merry Christmas to all, but I'm just in time to wish a wonderful 2015 to all of you, an year full of everything you wish (obviously modelling is included by default: you can add any other thing you may like to find in the new year...)

    And now a little "holiday update" !

    DSC06252.JPG DSC06256.JPG
    The support for left side tanks is almost ready but I realized that part 78 would have closed my holes so I was forced to trim it a little in the lower section

    DSC06257.JPG DSC06258.JPG
    I preferred to cut away the little black triangles of the water tank support for the same reason of the black dots.

    DSC06260.JPG DSC06261.JPG DSC06262.JPG
    I didn't like the UHU02 building method for the tanks. He leaves all the various sections joined togheter and curve/paste all them at once. I prefer to separate all the parts and curve them separately. At the end I paste all the sections to form the tank. The tanks on the right was done "UHU method" and the left ones with mine. The result is a little more regular (I'm sure this is for my little skill with tiny parts because UHU's tanks are much smoother than mine anyway)

    a little trick to keep parts in place while glue is drying

    Another variation I usually do when making cylinders. I put everytime a little strip inside to keep in place the edges. Only this way I can obtain a perfecly round surface, without a visible corner in the joining line.

    The finished left side with all the tanks.
  12. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    I don't believe that UHU intends people to build them as one piece. That is why the black line is so thick. It seems obvious this is to illustrate the positioning of the parts and serves as instruction, and part location all wrapped in one. This is why you do not see glue tabs triangles on any of his models. I believe he expects advanced modelers to cut the parts out and glue the without tabs, or tabs of the appropriate type. The proof is in the execution of his models. Also, if you cut the radii on that cover all the way to the ends, with the least amount of paper holding them, as you would need to have a circumference, you would then have to cut the ends of the square parts "square" to get rid of the left over radii pieces., otherwise they would be sticking up. If you build more of his models, you will see the logic of his thinking in the layout, and in the execution. I believe the picture on the right is your "interpretation" of the UHU method, while the one on the right is the intended UHU way.

    These models are not for the faint of heart. Personally, I never build anything stuck together. Too much of a chance of accrued intolerance. In actuality, you just figured out UHU's intended method, though, in truth, if cut properly, and the parts were left together with .005" of an inch, it could work, though it would break apart.

    Also, I never put tape on the printed surface, I glue a strip on the inside, sometimes, the I cut out the same part, cut thinner and a wee bit shorter. This allows for perfect alignment, and strengthens the part, the seam, as long as it is not aligned with the outside seam, makes for a great bond, and the outside edge, the edge that shows, can be pressed hard down and together. It is the same for the holes you punched out, you took the model to a higher level. I believe this is what you see in UHU's model, a pathway, and you make the decision just how clear you wish to make it. UHU mapped it out. :)
  13. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    Hi all, I was a little away... Really I was in bed with a nice virus fighting with my bronchial tree....:hungover: I don't know if it's the same everywhere but here, in Europe, this year the flu is very hard to fight. Well now is almost gone and, between a cough and another, I'm back to work.

    @zathros I see what you mean, and I agree with you. The nice part, when doing such a complex model, is to figure how to afford all the difficulties, great and little, and the fantasy to find a solution for every problem you face during build is the main quality of the good cardmodeler. Perhaps I didn't explain myself well (my little English mental dictionary often leave me "wordless"...) but this is what I intended talking about UHU method for doing little tanks:
    (this image is taken from UHU building thread on his site). As you see he leaves all the parts united and curve and paste the sections without separating them. I tried this way but I found it too difficult, perhaps for my big fingers...

    But let's go on with my build...
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
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  14. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    ...The next challenge is to cut away all the white spaces between all those little tubes
    The great part is done. Again I choose to open all the holes with "punch & die" tool

    All the parts already joined and ready for the aft bay
    (please note that I finally bought a new cutting mat... birthday present...) :D

    Added all the tiny (VERY tiny) bars

    Other two tanks (but... how much are they?) and the little glycol accumulators with the nail I used to round them...

    Now you can't say that this is a model without balls!

    DSC06282.JPG DSC06284.JPG
    For the big tanks I decided to add many little tabs to help keeping all the section aligned.

    One tank already in place and the other is going to be soon.

    DSC06288.JPG DSC06290.JPG
    This is the current status of the model.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2015
  15. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    I cannot leave parts together either. I know if you have a lot of rods with round ends then, you can use them to form, but I find separating the parts easier too. You have done such a fantastic job on this model, someone would have to be a fool to pick our errors. Tonino your technique is fantastic, and the pictures speak to it. :)
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
    Tonino likes this.
  16. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    Hi guys, I'm back again after some more little health problems... definitely this year didn't start in the better way for me. I also tried my hospital, the place where I work, but this time as a patient for some days. This was a very interesting and enlightening experience.... but let's go back to modeling...

    Last time I was starting to deal with the complex structures of the aft equipment bay

    The parts ready to be cut, a lot of fine cutting to do...

    almost done...

    OK now the first thing is to figure how to join all those things together...

    As I did previously I'm going to open all the holes. I know that many of them won't be visible at the end but I prefer to open them all.

    The final effect is really satisfying

    The inner side is detailed and ready. Other little tanks are done... (I'm starting to hate all those little paper spheres...)

    The most complex thing was the union between the aft bay structure and the LM body.
    This is one of the tricks needed to keep in place a part of the structure while glue is drying...

    DSC06316.JPG DSC06319.JPG DSC06320.JPG
    The aft bay is ready to receive all the electrical instrumentation. The final result is far from perfect. I wasn't able to keep all the joins perfectly thight and some of the "tubes" are slightly deformed but the general view is pretty satisfying... after all... I like it!
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  17. mcusanelli

    mcusanelli Member

    Your build looks incredible, beautifully done sir! Hey, about laminating....I use either UHUstick brand or Elmer's Craft Bond permanent glue sticks for that. Just smear a nice even coating on the backs of both sheets, do this in good lighting so you don't miss any spots, press them together, and put a heave book on them for a while until they dry. I've never had a problem with either glue, and so far, nothing has come apart! Hope this helps you out :)
    Tonino likes this.
  18. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    All those shafts are actually round with the ends swaged, some are octagonal. That would be a lot of work, but would make for a longer lasting model. I fear these models absorbing moisture over time and then warping on the frame work. Hollow tubes would be stronger, but would probably add 30 hrs. more work, minimally! Brushing on some Crazy Glue would definitely strengthen them, but the stuff is such a health hazard, and if you just had the flu, you need to let your lungs recover fully, not worth it. Looks absolutely great Tonino!

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  19. Rhaven Blaack

    Rhaven Blaack ADMINISTRATOR Administrator

    @Tonino I am glad to see that you are back and that all is well.
    Your build looks AMAZING! Everything looks clean and crisp!
    Tonino likes this.
  20. Tonino

    Tonino Member

    @mcusanelli - thanks for your words and your advices. Elmer products are not easy to find here but I will try the UHU stick, it seems really a good idea!
    @zathros - nice photo! Did you take it by yourself or just found in Internet? Do you know where is that installation? It would be nice to see it

    Here are some other shots: my health forced me at home for many days so my building rate is slightly increased for a while! :)

    I said before that I like to build little boxes: seems that - this time - I'll have to enjoy a lot building boxes!

    I place ready equipments on the rack as soon as they are available to avoid confusion

    The littlest of the boxes is less than 5 mm wide!

    DSC06332.JPG DSC06327.JPG DSC06331.JPG DSC06329.JPG
    The completed rack with all electrical and electronic devices. It's a very nice spot.
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