Titanic For Dummies Thread

Discussion in 'Ship & Watercraft Models' started by NYC Irish, Mar 25, 2009.

  1. Art Decko

    Art Decko Member

    Hey Bengt,

    Glad to hear you plan to continue work on the Junkers project. We'll all be eager to see it whenever it emerges from its current "hanger".

    How fascinating that you tracked down someone who actually flew that big wing!

    Good luck!
  2. phlipmbirner

    phlipmbirner Member

    You said:

    "If I ever get a bigger scanner, I will do several colour tests of my re-colored sheets, on the actual A3 heavy-duty photo ink jet paper that I have selected. I usually use a very good, matte photo paper (230 g/m2 paper weight), that is designed to work well with saturated color photos or black & white photos with very deep blacks."

    My experience is that using regular card stock paper on an ink jet printer to print out scans never looks as good as the original offset printed card model. Does using the matte photo paper give you a better printed product? What about the ability to glue and work with the photo paper? I have understood photo paper does not glue very well and becomes difficult to work with. Is that true?

    Bengt and Art Decko,

    I'm learning a lot about perspective and color in modeling. Thanks.

    John John,

    Your pictures made me want to see this place in person.

  3. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Photo Ink Jet Papers vs. Offset-printed sheets


    I would say, that if you use the best quality matte heavy-duty photo paper that you can find, ink jet prints are way BETTER than any offset printed sheets. You will not get the dot pattern that are there in offset prints and the blacks get much richer and deeper and the colors are better, too.
    That is, if you don´t scan offset-printed sheets and then print them in your ink jet printer - that can give you moiré problems with the offset dots, no matter how you twist and turn the original in the scanner.

    If there is a choice between a download or a printed model, I always choose the download version, because I get rid of the problematic dot pattern and I can do any colour correction and size alteration that might I want to.

    Matte photo papers glue very well, glossy papers are a different thing. I haven´t used glossy papers much, because of this. I use glossy spray instead when I want a glossy surface. There also other semi-glossy papers, that you can buy in hobby or craft stores - please refer to the Ares 1 scratch building thread by dhanners in the real space section for tips on this.

    Bengt :thumb:
  4. phlipmbirner

    phlipmbirner Member

    I will have to give the matte photo paper a try. With the moire problems I guess I have to re-learn the photoshop step one glausian blur, step two unmask sharpen or variations thereof to get rid of the original offset print dot pattern which would be scanned. Thanks for the tip.
  5. Art Decko

    Art Decko Member

    Phil - If you haven't done so already, you may have to tweak your printer settings for best results printing on cardstock. It might take some trial and error, but changing some of the default settings can make a big difference.

    For dealing with moiré patterns in Photoshop, have you guys tried "Filters > Noise > Despeckle" or "Filter > Noise > Reduce Noise"? I haven't tried these filters on moiré patterns, but I have sometimes found them useful for other situations.

    Regarding glossy photo paper, unfortunately it has some major drawbacks that sharply limit its usefulness for most modelers. As you mentioned, common glues don't adhere to it very well. Also, it doesn't cut, score or fold like paper - it's more like working with a thin layer of soft vinyl. It's a shame, because compared to standard cardstock, colors are far richer and details much crisper. I actually use it rather frequently, but only for simple, flat, unfolded parts that won't bear any weight or stress (example: to model a metal plate on a wall). In those situations, regular white glue works well enough.
  6. phlipmbirner

    phlipmbirner Member

    Art Decko,
    I've now have read again in another paper model forum what Bengt had suggested about using a photo matte paper for inkjet printers. It seems to have the benefits of much crisper, clearer prints of the photo paper and the ability to fold and glue of regular card stock. I'll give that a try and see how it works. It might change my opinion about the futility of scanning to recolor paper models.

    I have not reached the point in Photoshop where things are a science and readily repeatable. When I use Photoshop it is more akin to working witchcraft. Sometimes the spell I enter into the settings works and other times it makes a real mess. I'll put your suggestion to work and see what happens.

  7. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member


    Photoshop isn´t that mystical, magical or difficult, really - it´s just an image tool. I don´t claim to be an expert - I just use a few of the very effective adjustments, on both photos and card models. I perhaps use 10% of all the various adjustments in Photoshop but that will go a long way.

    Try these:
    Under Image/ Adjustments/ -try your hand at ONLY these three, to begin with:
    • Color Balance
    • Brightness / Contrast
    • Saturation (do NOT use 'Hue'!)

    Choose an image and pull the 'handles' to the left and right, very slowly and carefully, looking at the photo in front of you while you do it. You will see the photo gradually change.
    You´ll very soon see how the complementary colors affect one another; magenta vs. green, red vs. cyan, blue vs. yellow, etc.

    You can also try 'Auto Color' or 'Auto Contrast', under Image/ Adjustments - that will give you a good starting point, or reference, to work with.

    Brightness also affects the contrast, and contrast affects the saturation, so you can balance all these against one another until you are perfectly happy with your photo (or model).

    If you want to add some sharpness to a blurry picture (or model), try this:
    Under Filters/ Sharpness/ -try the filter 'Unsharp Mask':
    • Set it to ONLY 20 or 40, and apply once, looking at the photo - if you want more sharpness, apply again, and again. You can always take away what you did, under Edit/ 'Undo' or 'Step Backward', as many times as you like.

    Simple as that.

    Bengt :thumb:

    PS. Phil!
    Have a look at what I just did with a photo over here: http://www.zealot.com/forum/showthread.php?p=886678#post886678
    using ONLY the four adjustments described above - they are very powerful!
    Good luck with your Photoshopping! /Bengt
  8. phlipmbirner

    phlipmbirner Member

    I'll experiment with your settings. I know the program does some amazing things as you've illustrated. Thanks.
  9. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Photoshop for Dummies


    The software doesn´t do anything - it´s you who are the wizard!

    Good luck!
    Bengt :wave:
  10. Art Decko

    Art Decko Member

    Photoshop "witchcraft". :D Sometimes it does seem like working "spells"!

    You can spend a lifetime exploring Photoshop. It is such a sprawling program, few people, even professionals, use more than a fraction of its capabilities. Once you start getting familiar with the basics, you may find that you can really push the possibilities when you start to combine various tools, controls & filters.

    I agree with Bengt that there is enormous capability in just those three basic controls he listed. Between them, those three controls address the three basic attributes of color (hue, tint, saturation). I also strongly agree that there is great value in just "messing with" the sliders for those controls, you can learn a lot that way.

    Part of the complexity of Photoshop is redundancy - often there are multiple ways to do the same thing, depending on how much control you want. For example, for controlling brightness/contrast, "Image > Adjustments > Brightness/Contrast" is a very powerful, yet simple to use. If you someday find you want more control, you can try "Image > Adjustments > Levels" or "Image > Adjustments > Curves", or for more specialized problems, play with "Image > Adjustments > Shadows/Highlights" and "Image > Adjustments > Exposure". Besides controls, there are tools: the Burn (darken) and Dodge (brighten) tools. All deal with brightness/contrast, or some aspect of it.

    Despite all that complexity, one nice thing about Photoshop is that even at the most basic level it's still very powerful. You don't have to wait until you've scaled an enormous learning curve to do wonderful things, even the most basic tools and controls have vast capabilities.

    Have fun! :)
  11. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Photoshop for Dummies

    Hi Art Decko,

    I´m glad you mentioned the 'Burn' and 'Dodge' tools in Photoshop - I use them a lot. They work exactly like the black cardboard dodges on a wire or big black cardboard with a hole in it, that I onced used below my black & white photo print lab enlarger.

    I also use the 'Polygonal' and 'Magnetic Lasso' tools a lot, if I want to select a certain part of a photo or card model, and make changes to it. Photoshop is a great learning tool - you are never really fully educated.

    Bengt :thumb:
  12. peter taft

    peter taft Guest


    Hi John John. Nice to see a new thread with regards to the great ship Titanic. I have put a link below to a video... this is of my Model Titanic i built a while ago. It's the Ralph Currell model which i up-scaled to 35 inches and added alot of extra detail. Ralph liked my work and included it in his gallery. I also have a Titanic website {address on video caption}. I hope you pay a visit and enjoy what you see. Please let me know your thoughts, and i look forward to more reading and viewing here on your thread. Regards. Pete. :thumb:

  13. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    'RMS Titanic II', 'RMS Gigantic', or 'SS Titan' Sailing in 2012?

    Hi all,

    There has been some speculation and dreaming over the years on constructing a full scale replica of the great ocean liner, and perhaps make a centennial memorial voyage from Southampton to New York in 2012, thus honouring the 1500 lives lost in the icy cold waters of the North Atlantic in 1912.

    I found a couple of interesting links:

    1: http://www.sstitan.org/TheProject/PreliminarySpecifications.aspx
    2: http://www.put.com/gigantic/

    Exciting, isn´t it?
    Bengt :rolleyes:
  14. peter taft

    peter taft Guest

    Now that would be FANTASTIC :thumb: The costs of such a project could easily be met by one or two of the TOP DOGS joining forces and they wouldn't need to make the plans for they already exist. The price they could charge for tickets on the first voyage would be substancial obviously, but can you imagine the bookings ? They would make their money back very quickly and then reduce prices to a more reasonable amount so that the most ordinary people could afford the trip of a lifetime. The Titanic sailing on her original schedule but COMPLETING her journey, would captivate the whole world through the media (the revenue from this alone would bring in plenty for the running costs for a while}. I hope that they can make this dream become a reality - it makes great SENSE ! Regards Pete.
  15. phlipmbirner

    phlipmbirner Member

    Naming a modern ship Titanic, or for that matter Andrea Doria or Lusitania seem to me to be to be issuing a giant challange to hubris. I don't think I'm superstitious but it just seems wrong. Even with nearly a 100 years gone by its way too soon. I didn't notice anything scanning the links above but I wonder if any of my sentiments play into the marketing concerns of these people.
  16. NYC Irish

    NYC Irish Member

    Just noticed in a book that the Titanics keel was laid 100 years ago on March 31st....

    Already a century eh?

    The Titan idea...wasn't there a spooky book called "Wreck Of The Titan" published before the Titanic sank?

    John John
  17. There was another book, cannot recall the publisher, but it had 3 models in that book, one half model, with the inside visible as in the 1912 White Star Brochure, a second model of the Bow Wreck and a third of the Stern raised into the air, her final plunge.

    He John John;
    This is in my collection for a long time, bought it 15 years ago...
    Got anything to swap? My main interest is experimental planes..but anything out of the ordinary goes .(or high quality stuff like Halinsky or Orlik and so)

    Attached Files:

  18. speedbird

    speedbird New Member

    Hey everyone,

    New here and a bit of a maritime enthusiast to say the least. I took a look at the "SS Titan" website and I doubt they can pull off that. There is no way a company could build a ship that even remotely looked like Titanic today. SOLAS laws are the reason cruise ships and QM2 look the way they do...they're safer. When QM2 was on the drawing board they had the devil's own time getting permission to put the lifeboats up as high as they did. One reason was aesthetic and the other was to keep the North Atlantic from battering them too badly.(at least that was the excuse they used)

    If one built a Titanic-ish ship today, it would look like a cross between QM2 and Voyager of the Seas with a black hull and 4 squat, buff funnels taking up valuable deck space. Then there is the problem of having enough space for paying passengers. This could be overcome by the extra space gained by not having boilers and coal bunkers likely. The reason we have cruise ships about to top the 200k grt mark is because the larger hulls carry more passengers with a relatively small increase in opperation costs on the whole.

    But, I would really love to see the stark white cruise ships with black hulls instead. Celebrity and Disney have flirted with this and their ships look the part.

    Best regards,

  19. NYC Irish

    NYC Irish Member

    Hey Billy, Thanks for the offer but I do already have that particular book, its agreat one isnt it? Im surprised you havent built it.

    John John
  20. David H

    David H Member

    Harland and Wolf

    Great thread.

    I see Jerzy has been to my home town on the Titanic trail


    I recall visiting the Harland and Wolf's yard while at school in Belfast in the early 1980s. Oddly enough Titanic was not a big topic of conversation though we did visit this dry dock and the company offices.

    Back then there was some ambivalence towards Titanic. There was pride but also a sense of humiliation. Titanic was a failure, a glorious failure but still a failure and only one of a series of sad embarrassments that haunted Ulster through the 20th century from the Somme to the Troubles (and the shameful racism that proceeded them).

    I guess that it's a good thing that the Olympic class ships are celebrated for what they were but I still feel a twinge of sorrow when Titanic takes all the limelight. She had two sisters...


Share This Page