1945 Scammell Pioneer SV2S

Discussion in 'Armory & Military' started by Gandolf50, Jan 24, 2015.

  1. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

    Putting aside my Artillery tractor for a time, going blind and burned out cutting 177 tracks and all the various fiddly bits to go with them! I decided to start another, as I can always switch back and forth, with a fresh eye as to what to do next. First thing I do is research, so I can have a better idea what I am building towards, and also details!


    I also knew I wanted to include a detailed ( at least as much as possible ) engine. First off I found out very early on that I was in for it. This is the WAK Scammell Pioneer SV2S fro 2013. Now as this is technically only my 3rd model, some of it may be my own in-experience, but as a draftsman and many other technical fields, I can just say, the instructions and diagrams are just about worthless. For instance, instructions say, put rear-suspension together using picture 8 and general picture 2, picture 8 is only a top view and 2 a perspective view of the complete frame from the bottom..in other word..NOT enough information. I think I have spent more time looking for pars on the sheets, or trying to figure out how something goes together than actual construction!
    As it is, I have many parts cut out, some assembly and a lot of things waiting for me to create the proper attachments/parts or all new assembly's as the ones included are not good enough or just completely wrong.

    First off is the frame, not to bad, but as yet there are still parts waiting to be glued up till I see if others are going to fit/work or thrown out and scratch built!
    Figured I better get some primer on the inside as it will be very difficult once the rest of the frame goes together.

    Beginning of scratch built Garner 6LW Diesel. The model has a box with a oil pan and starter and as it says only a basic engine as it can only be seen from the bottom, I say Not in my version! But this also means major modifications to the front end, engine mounts, hood, side panels access panels the lot. It also means cutting and test fitting all the various pieces against each other before glue up or anything else.

    One of the first things I did while building the frame was to start one the wheels and tires and front fenders. As the fenders are formed from flat to a curved rounded form, I used the wheel as a form to get the shape right.
    Each cut on the fender was cut, rolled, glued and formed then coated in super-glue to hold shape, sanded and once I prime them smoothed further. Fuel tank has to go in before the cab so got a start as well as changing the mounts and filler cap.

    Basic radiator just would not do IE. a box with a printed grid on it, so off to my scrape yard...found some corrugated card used to protect photos when mailed, that was just about 1.5mm thick so cut and stacked thin strips to form the radiator, need to add some tubes and bolt heads, and paint to scratch built case. Basic trans on left few more details to add, and pulleys and fan on right.

    Front frame detail. Front spring assembly. Mount was really bad in kit so rolled a tube out of copy paper around .030 wire, new wrap around bracket to hold it in place, and using same size wire, sharpened and holes drilled using a Pin Vise. Front spring tow hitch assembly, I had to go to reference photos to figure out as kit directions/ diagrams were worthless. One of those things I wish I had caught early as it should have been part of the frame sides! After research decided to go ahead and attach like the real one. Again rolled copy paper tubes around wire. will attach spring to tube then when sanded and installed top pin will be fixed, and bottom will be a removable pin, that allows access to radiator drain etc. as spring assembly swings to Left when pin removed.

    Rear suspension brake drum assembly's, as well as walking beam suspension unit. I will not say much about it as I don't want to get banned! You are referred to the pictures as I said and that is it! and it does not go together very well, as when cut out and the parts were not designed to fit together right. The angle is wrong which attaches the curved left unit to the right beam unit! Again...I say, do not try to roll their rectangle into an axle! I used the paper stick from a Q-Tip then rolled copy paper around that till it was the right diameter! as they say, put a toothpick in the tube as it will be weak and it needs the support to hold up the model! Really? Roll your own..!

    Walking beam with gear box, with "Rolled tube" you can also roll the copy paper around the Q-Tip and if not glued to the Q-Tip you will have a nice axle and "bearing " you can then mount your wheels to the Q-Tip!
    Test fit of rear suspension assembly. Lots of detail to go on this one part alone! still have to work on the springs, bolt heads, hydraulic lines.... lots to go!

    Last one for today..desk top in case I forgot something..trust me this is the clearest it has been in a long time!
    Box in top is full of wheel and tread parts..I'll have some thing to say about those when I post that part!
    Next Time....
    bgt01, tryModel, ASC Mclaren and 3 others like this.
  2. mbauer

    mbauer Cardstock Model designer

    Great looking build so far! Nice details.

  3. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    Gandolf, you work is astounding!! It really is a pleasure to watch! :)

    @mbauer How are those rockets flying!! :)
  4. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

    First off, I have not been idle...been busy , but slowly working on my Scammell Pioneer. Problem is I keep running into various problems that cause me to start working on other parts of this truck and not getting anything finished! Was working on the wheels and found out that if built as instructed , then when it comes time to put on the tread, the ends of the tread will be butted together with no gap! First solution, was to add another .25mm layer above all that are called for...
    as you can see in above pix..treads will be mashed together when glued down...
    and by adding the extra .25mm layer the treads will be just about right! Problem now developed..the tread was not designed right...there is no connector between the ends! So I have to add it to all the tread pieces ( which I have not cut completely out!! Yeah! )

    This is what has to be added to each tread!

    Then I discovered, I have no real Idea where the rear suspension unit is supposed to go...there are no guides, directions..nothing but that the center line of the rear gear box has to be 50mm from the rear of the frame...and that does not really help much! so I started on the rear deck and wench and tool/storage boxes, and the lower frame for such... did the floor first as it was 2 pieces glued top and bottom to 1mm stock..simple..then I started with the wench and ended up scrapping everything from the kit and scratch building it..it was just not good enough IE: printed strip to represent the gear teeth.

    So ended up with this...( not weathered yet)
    ( no it does not work, but TRUST ME, I thought about it!) the gears for the cable drum do mesh and work and everything in the cable side turns like it should..just need to weather it and add the cable...and (catch that area I missed with the primer!)
    I then started on the boom and again, ended up scratch building most of it....Took examples from different restorations and made sure that parts were as workable and accurate as possible..needs some work on lower section where it mounts to the bed, as well as chain to move the boom and detail work...
    Brass piece in center is the guide for the cable that runs up to the pulley and will be cut out on top as soon as all the detail work is finished. The box on the right is one of ALL the rear boxes as I scrapped and scratch built all of them...
    This is my pile of garbage that I did not use.. ? Really ? a folded card stock box, with painted details! I don't think so!

    Scratch built all new boxes and really everything on the truck bed and below, with .5mm stock and then made them work..hinges, hasps, the works...

    The box up with the boom, shows the brass hinges...
    I am now working on the lower parts of the winch...
    again..lots of scratch build, in the process of cutting the gears for the lower cable drum...
    Last pix for this time...some of the hinges..scratch built from brass sheet, with pins and all work..strap hinges with pins at the top.

    Thats all for now...maybe next time I will actually have something completed... ;)
    bgt01, tryModel, ASC Mclaren and 3 others like this.
  5. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    Honestly, it looks like it will end up being drivable! On some of these models, you have to try and find pictures of the real ones to figure out what the instructions leave out. That can be hard on more obscure models. :)
  6. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

    hear that...and I have done so..I have a HUGE folder of pictures of every part ( just about) even junk yard parts! I even have a few pages from the original Army Users Maintenance Manual..(Wish I had the whole thing..just hard to get) with all this..I still don't have the pix I need for the right details and end up guessing as to how things work..Don't get me wrong...I LOVE it! It would just be nice! I am off to cut more tread pieces right now! Just finished the first layer of 7 wheels!

    PS..anyone wanting to tackle this beast...contact me..I will share or post what you may need!!
    Rhaven Blaack and zathros like this.
  7. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    That is extremely generous of you. I Thank You, on behalf of the forum. :)
  8. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

    Glad to help any and all, anytime I can....

    Now for this build...onward and upward..
    seems like every time I look at my work bench it is covered in hundreds of parts, all in various stages of completion, but still feels like I haven't gotten very far ( really feels that way when I look at the wonderful work, on the boards!!!)

    anyway..cut the treads for the 7 tires...and thinking I could make things easier did it the wrong way..opps forgot, wife got me a Silhouette Cameo for x-mas for this specific type of cutting many repetitive copies of detailed things ( hands can't stand up to it anymore) So I thought I would give it a try!
    Scrapped the originals after scanning them, then imported to the cameo and created a cut file for one of the treads, then copied that to the other treads. Using registration marks from the cameo, you can print the treads (or what-ever) them bring back to the cameo and it will read the registration marks and cut out your treads/object! Forgot to take a pix of the printed version, but this is the second layer in plain tag board, .25mm thick....
    as the cameo will not cut over 1 mil I did not layer the treads down the center as I should have, when cut by hand, and I forgot the difference in circumference, thinking I could repeat the original with only the center portion of the treads, then, add the full tread on top..Bad Mistake! just about 3mm difference, finished one tire and the tread was just too thin..and was just about ready to scrap them all, then..decided to try and adjust the tread to fit over the fist layer..took a measurement (twice) stretched the tread in the cameo adding the 3mm, cut one out and it fit, close enough!! Even with the extra work it was still better than cutting them all out by hand, and it did a good job of it! ( I will let everyone know how it handles tank treads next time I need to cut some out!)


    4 tires on left have 1st and second tread layers on, but not folded over on the sidewalls yet. 5th tire from left 1st layer of tread only. 6th and 7th just single layer of tread...looks way to thin! I'll try to fix it, but not sure...
    So I am now working on both tires and main winch..scratch building the winch brake and drive shaft parts ( in white) finished up the winch drum..and found some cord that will pass for cable when weathered...

    And off course I am still trying to get the chassis finished..so that I can fit all the other things to it...so need to get the front suspension done and get the tires on...then I can start adding details...need electric lines, and brake lines......
    so cleaned up a bit and took this pix and added labels...so now that it has been cleaned up maybe I can see what I am doing!!

    Next Time!
    bgt01, tryModel, zathros and 2 others like this.
  9. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    That picture above, in itself, is a tutorial on how to make excellent tires, or any sort either, because you only need change some shapes, to get a different tread, but it's all right there. Excellent!! :)
  10. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

    Thanks Zathros!!
    I did change things around some-what..as the way I had worked the tires resulted in very thin tread.(Not Acceptable).. so ..went back into Cameo..and after measuring the circumference of the tire with 1st layer of tread, stretched the tread to the new size..cut 1 copy for a test, and as the old saying goes " Good enough for Government work"! I did cut the tread and adjust it once as I applied it to each tire to line up just a little closer ( I'm talking cutting MICRO slices out of the tread and rejoining)! It all is working out better now ..tread has a better profile and some "grip" to it...

    Also been working on the front suspension as I said above..and scratch built some new tie-rods....calipers...ect..and a better way of making the front wheels turnable...
    I did this for more than the fact that the kit part was not very good, and I could not see it lasting very long, but I also have the idea to run this all the way, to the steering wheel, so need it to work better and be stronger..also the front fenders mount behind the front brake assembly and turn with the wheels so needs to be extra strong..!!!

    I also got part of the rear jib and tool storage area in progress, with the all scratch built parts...just getting the hinges sorted out for the storage boxes..then I'll think about the drop down -fold out ladder between storage boxes...( thats what the hand rails are there for)...
    Have to mix up something to show the distressed wood under the worn off paint areas ( test area on lower right access flap)...
    and just for a break...weathered the tackle block assembly..

    More later and as it happens.....
  11. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    The black and tackle is awesome. I have some that are a hundred years old (came off an old sailing ship), and yours looks as real as the ones I have!! The steering looks very robust. I can't help think how hard that trucck must ride empty, with the leaf spring suspension all the way around. It probably rocks side to side a bit, good for off road. :)
  12. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

    Yep I imagined that also, (as it has a tall profile, but all the mass is in the frame and lower, everything above is wood or sheet metal skin on thin frame)... ..but watching some videos it does not seem to ...but then again empty and not towing anything, top speed is around 70km/h...
    I have spent my fair share of hours in combat stripped duce-&-a-half's, 10 ton multi-fuelers and 7-1/2 ton wreckers and the like and the kidneys really take a beating even in the modern comfortable models!!
    How about several hours in this 1945 version ....

    and nothing is missing just a bit dirty, and in need of paint...

    Now a quick and dirty update on my own version...got the tires together at least all of them now have tread...so did a quick and dirty example of about what the finished will begin to look like as soon as I insert the wheels, trim-rings and inner brake drums...wish I had access to laser-cut parts, really could use some lug-nuts for this...cutting out with an x-acto at this scale is just a real nightmare!!!


    Till Next time!
  13. josve

    josve Active Member

    what a nice build!!
  14. tryModel

    tryModel Member

    Amazing, what brand of colors do you use?
  15. RonaldoM

    RonaldoM Member

    Hi Gandolfo, first i want to congratulate you for this work. It's really great.
    You said it's a kit that you make a scracth built. What's the original kit? Is it plastic? Do You have a cover box of it?
  16. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    I guess you know why they jumped out so fast! :)
    Gandolf50 likes this.
  17. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

    Thank-You for the complement!!
    The model is 80-90%+- scratch built...(will have to see by the time I finish this beast..)

    it was in the beginning but easy to miss...this started off as a WAK -Scammell Pioneer SV2S from 2/2013 try ...www.wak.pl or on facebook as WAKpl and
    No it is not plastic, it is all card stock and paper....
    Hope that answers some of your questions...always happy help!
  18. RonaldoM

    RonaldoM Member

    I asked why the quality of the overall piece is very good, they are very well shaped. Thank's for the link
    Gandolf50 likes this.
  19. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

    :shamefullyembarrased:...opppss.... I hate to say this, as it wont help much, but I make my own.

    If you are asking about the main green..it is a combination of liquid acrylics (Liquitex) chromium oxide green, matte black, and matte permanent varnish and a touch of water for fluidity..(I think I'm forgetting one)......oh yes..a touch of deep brown...

    if asking about the tires....cheapest brand of interior/exterior flat black spray paint (generic) some 400 and 600 wet/dry automotive sandpaper...after sprayed, and dry..rubbed down on an old piece of blue-jeans denim worn smooth with age...gets the fuzz from over-spray off and if its a bit dirty...adds that first level of "dirt look" and polishes the sidewalls a bit...the wet and dry will road-wear the tread and scuff up where needed...and then some good ole-New Mexico super-fine dust! dumped on and brushed into the treads then brushed off or wet/dry again for the right look ( really is the same as using fancy dry pigments and can be mixed with various mediums) but I find, once it is brushed on..it is never coming off ! a quick dusting of matte spray varnish ( or the huge size of cheap aqua-net hairspray or similar for 1$) anything else..is mixed from tube acrylics, and medium, and can be reduced to work from my old Passche VLS airbrush that's 40 years old )... Hope that helps ?!
  20. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

    In my experience it was more like "Crawl out, groaning" ...:)

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