Wabash rr. heavy load flat cars - a third time

Discussion in 'Scratchin' & Bashin'' started by modelsof1900, Aug 15, 2005.

  1. modelsof1900

    modelsof1900 Member

    Built in 1890/91 and constructed for the transport of heavy cable reels for streetcar services that were my first informations to the Wabash rr. #20006. By these features can one think of something else than to the cable cars in San Fransisco?



    So I thought that a large drive wheel must also exists in order to be able to propel this streetcar system with the cable drive. Sorry, but such a large wheel had to be really large! Therefore this special designed wheel with 10 slots in oder to be able to transfer a large traction power to the rope. Because this large dimension of this wheel shipping will only possible by division. So I had to divide it into two segments. The two middle surfaces of each part are equipped with strong flanges so that the segments can be screwed again together by very strong screws to a whole wheel - in the reality.
    Unfortunately I have built only this model. It´s identically again to the Wabash 16 wheel flat car #20006 so that both parts must be loaded on this one car. Because that this model was my first car of my small modeling serie it has got No. 20000 of Wabash rr.
    And if you want to know more to the modeling job, then you read on please.
    This large wheel was first turned as one part on a late. I divided it exactly in the center and with model construction resin I stuck the middle flanges and ribs between the holes on both sides on. With a small milling cutter and fine grit paper I smoothed all splices and I think through the laquer finish the parts really look like large machined cast parts from a steel foundry. The pictures show that both segments only are fastened with the turn buckles on the car body. These parts like the turn buckles under the car was made also by myself through the usage of cannulaes for medical syringes. And it´s really a simple job in order to manufacture turn buckles in different sizes which look still much finer in addition than the brass cast parts. By this model you can see also other differences. The stake pockets are here handmade and fastened directly with wire by the side beams to the car. Therefore I could use directly the turn buckles for the fastening of the load even if the buckles aren´t equipped with a screw thread.
    Absolutely I must to add a further technical detail. When you wind a steel cable 10 times around a cylinder in all cases the cable would move with the rotation of the wheel after the side. On the other hand the same behaviour no slots could prevent that the rope moves sideways. Such a cable drive works only correctly with a second opposite cable pulley whose axle is so bent that the second pulley can shift the cable from a slot to the next slot.
    In order to complete my cable drive system I have already this needed second smaller cable wheel under construction. With nine slots it will as a counterpart the large drive wheel perfectly matches. However, today I know that the power plant of San Fransisco cabel cars works with simple pulleys. Did I write yet that these cable wheels for cable car system in San Fransisco were ordered?
    I have still a lot of ideas and also drawings of further heavy load flat cars which I would like to model in the future but at present I´m busy at other modelling jobs. You will read more in next threads.

  2. :thumb:

    Excellent job!!!!
  3. TomPM

    TomPM Another Fried Egg Fan

    Awesome job!
  4. Ray Marinaccio

    Ray Marinaccio Active Member

    A work of art.
    You do nice work, I look forward to seeing more.
  5. modelsof1900

    modelsof1900 Member

    Thank you very much to all for the high acknowledgment. And I would like to talk with you about your ideas, suggestions or also criticism.

  6. tillsbury

    tillsbury Member

    Beautiful. Those are N-scale, is that right? My first idea and suggestion is that you package up those turnbuckles and start selling them. I'll have two packs of them please...

  7. rch

    rch New Member

    Once again, incredible work. I really enjoy seeing attention to detail like this and your obvious knowledge of things outside of building railroad models make these loads a joy to look at, ponder the construction methods, and speculate on what their use might be. Of course, the description answers my questions, but before I read it, I was certainly enjoying all the wondering of what it might be. Since I've never seen the underground machinery of the cable car system in San Francisco, it didn't occur to me that's what it could be, but I have seen the Sandia Mountain Tram in Albuquerque, New Mexico. This enormous wheel looks like it could fit just as easily there (http://www.sandiapeak.com/).
  8. zedob

    zedob Member

    Wow, You are "THE Master of Scale Loads". I love your work.

    You should seriously think about manufacturing those turnbuckles. I don't know what types of machines you have available, but if you could set up to make those, I bet you'd be able to move them.
  9. modelsof1900

    modelsof1900 Member

    Thanks again to all answers with such a positve feedback. :) :)
    Models are built all in HO scale and building turn buckles is a job like all my others - hand made without a special tooling. In next days I'll prepare an extra thread with a few shots of my technology so it can try everyone to build turnbuckles. And only if I retired (in 17 months) I can think to manufacture turnbuckles in a semi commercial job. In first line I would like to built more uncommon models. And a few more presentations and also modeling projects 'll follow occasionally.

  10. modelsof1900

    modelsof1900 Member

    model load in reality

    Good news !!



    At weekend I visited a historical society here in Saxony/Germany which collected, reconditioned and maintened old steam engines and locomobiles. Largest and finest piece of their collection ist this stationary single cylinder steam engine built in 1904 that I have seen in working condition. The smell of steam, heat and oil and the quiet buzzing of engine - a phantastic feeling!!
    And this steam engine has and power wheel very similar to that I modeled as load for Wabash car #20000. Ok, wheel diameter is half of mine and it is equiped with four rills only, but it is divided into two halfs also. Unfortunately today only two ropes exist, which propel however still an electric generator as before 100 years already. A wonderfull sample of technology of 1900 era and a good sample that my load is close to a historic machinery.
    And better yet!!
    In a newsletter I found a picture of 1860/70 with a real large machinery - the same system however everything twice as largely and still more largely. Steam engine is a two-cylinder engine that propelled also such a rilled wheel with 12 (!) ropes. Whole power station propelled a large transmission system working in an early spinning and weaving mill. If I should get a permission for the use of this picture, then I want to show also this picture here in the forum. A really impressing picture of a technology from past time and a subsequent confirmation for my modeling jobs.
    I like to do such jobs!


    Edit: Here a link to a picture of the mentioned steam engine shot while opening event in 1870.
  11. zedob

    zedob Member

    What a pretty engine. Do you have any pictures of the valve system. From what I can tell, it's rather unique. I'm always glad to see old steam engines running.

    Most large cast flywheels and gears were/are cast in halves for transportation reasons. Your models are about as correct as correct gets. Again, Beautiful work.
  12. modelsof1900

    modelsof1900 Member


    Hi Zedob,
    I was fulfilled with luck feelings seeing this working steam engine. Here a picture of steering, that I copied from syciety's website - in German. Engine is equipped with a valve steering, you can see valves mounted top on the cylinder. A speed geovernor is mounted between the two excenters with their valve rods, that is turning with the steering shaft. But I don't know as it works to hold a constant steam engine rotation by more or lesser steam. At society's next open day in next year I'll try to know more. I'm also interessted to know more of this system.

  13. zedob

    zedob Member

    Very unusual valve sytem. By the looks of the steam chest and how the valves are arrainged, the steam might have been kept a t a constant pressure and the movement of the valves might have been varied for acceleration and cut-off.

    I still can't see how any adjustments to the valve train can be made.

    I'd really like to know what that electric motor looking thing is between the two eccentric rods.

    Cool machine

    PS. Thanks for the link, but your English is better than my German. .:D .
  14. modelsof1900

    modelsof1900 Member

    I'sorry but I can't give more annotations in present time.
    I'm sure that part looking like an electric moter is a centrifugal force controller, but I don't know as it works to change valve times for acceleration and cut-off. I think speed steering is inside of this shell. But one is correct, engine works with a constant steam pressure like you see in my first big picture - the large hand driven valve opposite to steering. I think also that it has two conditions only, open or closed and I'm sure that engine speed is not steered with this valve.
    I'll try to get a more exact explanation, because I are also very much interested in it.
    An addition: steering is called a "Proell-shaft-steering" named after a German technican Proell living in 1800th. Sorry also Google hasn't more informations.

  15. Chessie6459

    Chessie6459 Gauge Oldtimer

    Great Stuff. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
  16. modelsof1900

    modelsof1900 Member

    A few days ago I have got permission to use in reply #10 mentioned picture that shows a very large stationary two zylinder compound steam engine and a large power wheel for twelf ropes!!! Picture was photographed in 1867 while opening of this power system together with owners of weaving company.
    As this picture is a private document of company's owner family so I have got permission of use only on my own pages on my own website, however here is a link to this document of old time.
    I think this is a very impressed machinery and a good sample for load of my modelling job.
    Sorry, I didn't got permission showing this picture here in forum.

  17. Wimpy

    Wimpy New Member

    Hi Bernhard
    I think it very nice work. The only problem I have is would the flat cars of that time period be able to carry both halves. The two together must come close to the max. weight the car can carry. The two of them together sure looks to heavy for the car. But then again it is your railroad, you can do what ever you want. "If it looks good then it must correct." Your load sure looks good.


    Wiscasset & Carrabassett Ry.
    The biggest, littlest railroad, down east
  18. modelsof1900

    modelsof1900 Member

    Hi Wimpy,
    in fact you have absolutely right.
    I know that this car has a little mistake - it is really overloaded with these both halfes of this large wheel.
    For my apology I have to say that there was following problem - I have had this wonderful load and I have built all together three cars of this type only - two with other loads, you can see also my other threads of Wabash flat cars. I have more ideas for heavy loads and so I plan to build two or three heavy flat cars of different styles in future - all with 12 or 16 axles for heavy loads. Than I will split and reload these wheel parts on two cars for a truly railroad business. But in moment two other modelling jobs are in progress and new flat cars have to wait for realization yet.

  19. modelsof1900

    modelsof1900 Member

    An attempt to explain a Proell governor

    A special description to Zedob and all friends of steam engines - and all others also!

    With my reply of 09-14-2005 I was at end of my Latin (a German phrase) or in English - I was at one's wits' end explaining the function of speed governor of pictured steam engine, a working stationary system.
    Today, eight months later I can give all the missing information after good discussions with members if the historic society owning the steam engine. Society has held an open day two weekends ago and it was a very good day seeing and talking about the club's original steam engines (three engines) and all the many fine steam engine models of guests.

    The Steam engine with its governor (right).

    The Proell Governor with double eccenters for each side of cylinder.

    As I have written in my former replies, this electric motor looking thing is a speed governor named after a German technician Wilhelm Proell. The engine turns by the governor with a constant revolution at all times and at each power that the engine must give. The governor steers by its own rotation a varying cut-off by the valves like other and more-known governors working after principle of centrifugal force.

    1st. The two exhaust valves are mounted at bottom of cylinder and are driven by fix mounted eccentrics and eccentric rods going under the steam cylinder and generate constant opening times of exhaust valves.

    2nd. The admission valves are mounted top on the cylinder and are driven by double working pair of eccentrics for varying cut-off. Basic of this steering are for each side fix mounted eccentrics whom would provide a constant cut-off. But whit a second (outer) eccentric at each side which run on the basic eccentrics and with small rotations of outer eccentrics the eccentric rods will get a different stroke in dependence of the position on internal and outer eccentric to each other.

    3rd. The Proell governor is turning with its housing on the steering shaft that is direct driven by the steam engine. Inside of housing two weights are mounted and pressed by springs on the shaft. With working of steam engine the shaft turns and weights are drive away from the shaft like it do upright mounted speed governors with the two swinging weights. This governor works with same principle only that the turning shaft is in a horizontal position. The movement of the two swinging weights away from the shaft will be changed to a small rotation of outer eccentrics by a few mechanical parts and so the stroke of eccentric rods will be changed.
    You can make a simple consideration. If both eccentrics will stand with its maximal amplitude in same direction than you will get the longest stroke when both eccentrics are turning without changing their position to each other. On other side each moving of outer eccentric on internal eccentric will reduce the stroke of eccentric rods and it will get a minimum if outer eccentric is turned for 180 degrees.

    4th. In reality the eccentrics are mounted in such positions together that a small moving of outer eccentric will generate a large changing of stroke. I have seen like steam engine was started. With opening of steam valve the engine started and while first two or three rotations the admission valves were lifted for a maximal stroke of 8 millimeters (this is 0.33 inch) and the stroke was reduced to 1 millimeter (0.04 inch) by the governor when engine did run with full speed. And at last. After hooking up the electric generator to the running steam engine the rotation of engine reduced, the admission valves opened the long way for a short time again and than with full speed again the valves opened for 5 or 6 millimeters, around ¼ inch. And that all at same steam pressure without changing the steam pressure by the main valve.

    5th. Sorry, did I wrote this text so that you can understand the principle of this pictured Proell governor? I must say that I have had a few problems to translate the working principle of this governor in English. And if it’s not understandable than I will like to add a few drawings as supplement yet.

  20. zedob

    zedob Member

    Many thanks. You did a great job of explaining how the governor works. Alot better than I could have done it in German. Now it makes sense. The close-ups help too. Very beautiful engine and well kept. I would love to see it in operation.

    If you ever get the drawings and have permission to post them, by all means do.

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