'Using Rhinoceros' Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Software' started by wunwinglow, Jun 20, 2004.

  1. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    I don't know if this is the same question or not but can you buy an upgrade (Rhino 3.0 to 4.0) instead of the whole works?
  2. NOBI

    NOBI Active Member

    I got a clean version of Rhinoceros 4.0 beta with cd-key from my friend. Rhino 3.0 and 4.0 can install seperately that mean i can work on model using Rhino 3.0 and test Rhino 4.0 in same machine.
  3. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    v4 is still at beta test stage and won't be available to buy for another 6 months or so. If you are a registered user of v3, you can download the current v4 beta, usinf your v3 CD key to access the download. You will be e-mailed a seperate key for the v4 installation. V4 installs last a couple of months, then you must reinstall an up-to-date beta. This prevents old bugs that have already been fixed being reported again.

    If you do load a beta version, please report anything funny you notice to the newsgroup; that is what the beta programs are for; they are not just free programs!! No doubt McNeels will make you a great offer to upgrade to the full v4 when it goes commercial.

    Tim P
  4. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Just found a new tool that I love. Perhaps in Tim's tutorial it's mentioned, certainly it's a close to relative the offset command is but the offsetsrf command is totally awesome! I was getting ready to call it quits on the cockpit of my Airwolf model cause I didn't want the hassle of making everything fit (several layers ie skin, transparency, and interior walls) but with this new command that I found (and just have to experiment with) I find I have much more enthusiasm for the project.:grin:

    For those of you who don't know about the offsetsrf command it does for surfaces what offset does for curves. And as paper does have significant thickness which needs to be taken into consideration when working with objects having several layers this is almost miraculous to me.
  5. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Yes, that's one of the sweet things about Rhino. It always has something in the toolbox that does the trick. It is by far one of the slickest pieces of software I have ever used.

  6. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    In Rhino, on the Help menu is an item called 'Command List'. Set aside an evening and just wander through the listings; you will find it is the mother load! Each command is listed (most of them, anyway, there are some other hidden gems...) complete with all its scripting commands, buttons, and usually a small tutorial with illustrations showing its use. Time spent here will be handsomly repaid. Even if you can't see a use for some of them, don't worry. Just planting that little seed of knowledge in your mind willll save the day later on, simply because a problem will arise and you will recall that there IS a tool for it!

    If you really want to boggle your mind, look at the new'revised command list for version 4.... http://download.mcneel.com/whatsnew.asp?product=Rhino&version=4.0&release=Beta

    Here's to a great 2006 for everyone,

    Tim P
  7. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    extendsrf command

    Just found another cool command. It is the extendsrf command and it extends surfaces! The zebra command also looks interesting but I haven't had time to fiddle with it yet.

    Every time I find a new way of doing things it opens up new possibilities and means I have to improve something that has been bothering me for quite a while. The offset surface command meant airwolf got a cockpit(at least a better one than it would have gotten otherwise) and extendsrf means I can now fix the problem with the windscreen that has bugged me since I first created it but didn't know how to fix it. At this rate I'll never finish.

    Danged perfectionists.:cry:
  8. fimdan

    fimdan Member

    I guess I am back

    Hello to all the fans of Rhino.

    You might remember me from a short-lived report of making a yak 3 model. That was ages ago. I have not been too active due to some job related matters but having too much time this holiday season made me wanna make something in Rhino. So I found myself plans for D 520, a French fighter, and I started drawing some curves. Again, I am not sure how long I will go on making this model, and no, I do not promise I will finish it, but I thought I would put something here and ask a few questions along the way.

    Here is a shot of how far I have gotten up to this point.


    Now time for questions:

    1) How do I go about material thickness in elements that are not planar (ex purple elements in my image?)
    2) I have version 3.0 of Rhino. Can I Label edges when unrolling? I have seen NOBI doing that I some previews post, but I can't seem to find what he shows in my version of Rhino.

    That would all for now.

  9. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    I can answer question one for you. The offsetsrf command mentioned by me a few posts earlier in this thread works well. All you have to do is select the surface to offset the distance to be offest and the direction(inside or outside the existing surface).

    As for question 2 I think what Nobi was doing was demonstrating some features of the Rhino 4.0 beta version that is available for free download right now. The creators want feedback about how well it works before they start selling a complete version.
  10. fimdan

    fimdan Member


    Yes, offset curve does the trick. Thanks a lot. BTW, that corsair of yours is a sweet model. Where do you get plans for your projects. I have tried airwar.ru but most of them are not good enough (at least for me :)).

  11. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    The Bell 222 3view I'm using for Airwolf came from a site similar to airwar.ru but the plans for the corsair came from the Detail and Scale F4U Corsair Vol 1 book.

    I laboriously measured and and drew the whole thing into Acad(before I had Rhino). It took me over a year to get the model to the point it is now, and the fit is pretty shoddy in some places. I'm going to have to rework major portions of it in Rhino before I'm satisfied with it.
  12. John Griffin

    John Griffin Member

    F2G quality

    Hey, from the pics I've seen, that's a pretty nice (and complex) model. If you did most of that using 2d, that is amazing. Flaps too- wow! Will the wings fold??
  13. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    I've designed room into the model so that if you decided to add the details the wings could fold but I haven't done anything other than that.
  14. fimdan

    fimdan Member


    I have another question for you, rhino experts. How in the world do you use CPlanes (construction planes) in Rhino. I have been clicking around but nothing really makes it work the way I would like it to. I assume that CPlanes are helpful with drawing objects on a predefined plane (as opposed to default x,y,z planes ) ) . Am I correct? Can someone explain and elaborate on this subject?


  15. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    cplane usage

    One of the ways that I have used them is to align the cplane with the plane of one of the formers that I wanted to work on. Say for example the shape of a former wasn't quite right so I aligned the cplane with former and then I can draw the outline the way I want. I don't know if that makes sense or not.

    You may have noticed that in the perspective vport as you move the cursor around you could move it so it looks like it's overtop of an object and then you draw a line only to realize the cursor was on the cplane behind the object you were looking at. Placing the cplane where you want helps eliminate this problem.

    I hope that helped if not one of the more eloquent guys can probably clear up the confusion that I just created.
  16. fimdan

    fimdan Member

  17. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Depends where you are at learning how to use Rhino. There are lots of other tutorials on the web for free, so maybe it would worth spending some time doing those (or as many as you want to do!!) as well as the tutorials that come with the program. The rhino website www.rhino3d.com has a huge list of resources, but a google search will turn up plenty more!

    That said, the modelling on that site looks very good; maybe worth bookmarking and coming back too later on. Just remember, there is no substitute for practise though!

    Tim P
  18. Ashrunner

    Ashrunner Member

    I was lucky enough to get a copy of another 3D program from my nephew for Christmas (AC3D) and looking over tutorials on it, I have found some good ones, some which make too many assumptions and some which go WAY over my head.

    As for the Rhino tutorials, when I was looking at them, I noticed some were good, some which made to many assumptions on the skills of the person following the tutorial and some which went WAY over my head.

    There is one Rhino tutorial which shows how to make an Me-109. Interesting tutorial done in a dozen or so steps. I don't know how detailed the Form and Shape tutorial is, but the website mentions something like 600 steps. That sounds rather detailed and rather in-depth to me.

    Too many people who do tutorials assume the follower of the tutorial knows immediately what a vertex is, or joined polygons are, or whatever. I began reading a tutorial a while back which showed some good points on setting up background images, and then some basic information which was helpful. Suddenly it said something like, "I've added some guides which will be used later to make things easier" and didn't give an idea of what the guides were. I stopped reading the tutorial there because I was lost and once I am lost, I am totally lost. Another tutorial said, "Now extrude the section into four parts" and never made any effort to explain how to extrude or even where the command was.

    I am nearing the "55 stay alive" time of my life. Though I could learn something quickly in the past, these days I can't. I do hope someday I can learn how to use AC3D just so my nephew doesn't feel he wasted his money. But also because I want a model of Bristol Type 72 racer and I know no one ever will design a model of one of them. 8v)

    Bottom line of this verbose "let it out" post...the more detailed the tutorial in my opinion, the better. Maybe F&S2 isn't detailed, maybe it is...but no one here has yet said anything about it. Someone with Rhino, a spare $75 and time just might be able to pass on good or bad words regarding the tutorial.
  19. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Ash and all, as someone who occasionally puts tutorials together, they are difficult to pitch sometimes, and know how much 'direction' to put into it. Does the writer assume the reader will know how to use a mouse, for example, or how to save a file?

    Generally you will be able to work out if the tutorial is aimed at a complete beginner or a more skilled operator. If the technique being presented is an advanced one anyway, it would only be sensible for the writer to concentrate on the (sometimes very!) difficult stuff, with being distracted by lots of 'click this' instructions.

    I always recommend anyone starting out in Rhino to work through the couple of tutorials that ship with the program. Go through them parrot-fashion, maybe two or three times, until you UNDERSTAND what is being explained to you. Then using these techniques, model something on your work desk, a pen, or a craft knife, something you can examine and measure. Practise working ACCURATELY. Get to know how to place points by using the grid, by typing in their co-ordinates (absolute and relative) Get to know how the various snap functions and ortho and planar constraints work.

    I would say any attempt to model anything before you have these basic Rhino skills at your fingertips will be fast track to frustration! And then people give up; bad bad bad bad bad!!!! There is no substitute for just sitting in front of the PC and practising these skills! Remember, a Grand Piano is just a piece of fancy furniture unless you PRACTICE!

    If it will help, I can put a few mini-tutorials together to cover these basic, perhaps fundamental would be a better word, skills and tools. I did cover a fair bit in my Sukhoi tutorial, apologies that the model never got finished! New members might like to have a look at it, at http://www.kipperboxes.co.uk/assets/Su7_Tutorial_text.html

    This thread also mentions a number of aspects of using Rhino, as well as other threads here. For anyone starting out though, I wouldn't spend any money on more advanced learning materials until you have a sound working knowledge of the basics, and a bit more. You simply won't be able to make good use of them. Later on, well, maybe. You will be better able to judge for yourself by then!

    Tim P
  20. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    I'll just add my two cents on the whole tutorial thing. I was in the same boat when I first got Rhino. I didn't know jack about it and I'll admit the thought crossed my mind that I might have made a mistake in purchasing it but I've offered it my time, frustration, and curses and it's turned out some pretty good stuff for me, and I haven't spent a dime on any additional reference material.

    Necessity truly is the mother of discovery. If you want to know something bad enough I beleive you can find out on your own what Rhino will do. If you don't know how to do something someone on this site probably does. The "I want it now" attitude which is so common nowadays really cripples the ability to learn things. It is said that no lesson is truly learned until purchased with pain. Remebering all the frustrations makes victory taste all the sweeter once you have acheived it(and you're not as likely to forget the lesson).

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