Questions about Rhino3D and the Lofting of a simple Hull

Discussion in 'Tips, Tutorials & Tools' started by zathros, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    Hopefully this works out. I did tutorial yesterday, but the pictures kept changing location and it made no sense. Here we go again! :)

    A New Haven Sharpie. This is the file I will be working with.


    My screen and Grid is set up as follows. It doesn't really matter though:

    In the Command Line type PictureFrame, then navigate over to the picture of the New Haven Sharpie you downloaded. Make a folder and keep all the info for this model in it, very important!

    Type 0,0 (these are numbers, not letters!) for the first corner of the picture to locate at the center in the "Front Viewport". Type 5 (which will be 5 feet) and when the box goes out that direction, just left click at that spot and the picture will appear.

    Make copies of the Picture you just inserted. Click on the picture, under Transform, Click on "Copy", and make 2 copies, right click when you are finished to stop copy process. Right click is the same as "Enter".

    Double Click the "Front" Viewport, as we will be working there now.

    It should look like this:


    We are going to loft the Hull. Click the picture once. On the Top Row, you will see many pictures of different functions, click the one that looks like a "Padlock". This will lock the "Pictureframe" in place and allow you to draw on it without moving it.

    For now, we will be working with the part that looks like the boat bulkheads, the right side is the front, the left side is the rear. You will use (in this case) Polyline. It is the 3rd selection down from the top on the right. Hold you cursor over it, and it will read "Polyline". Click it once.

    Turn "Ortho" on (Ortho stands for Orthogonic, keeps things nice and square), it is BOLD, it is on. Draw a straight line going right up the center of that big fat line, this will be the center of you keel line. For the rest of the lines, you will draw on the outside edge.

    It will look like this (do not be afraid to make the picture bigger or smaller to suit your needs: 4.jpg

    Now, turn "Ortho" "OFF", select "Polyline. You are going to copy each line of the Hull Loft Lines. Stay to the outside. The point is you stay on the in or the outside, you do not interchange. Trust me on this, stay on the outside.

    Click Osnap, and Tick the box that reads "Near", that will start your line on the center of the keel. The last line will start where the bottom of the boat intersects the center keel line, Click and start line there, and run it up try to keep the lengths the same on the sides, (this is the first, or "Default" layer, AFTER YOU HIGHLIGHT IT, GO TO THE RIGHT SIDE OF YOUR SCREEN AND CLICK "PROPERTIES, select "Display Color"/ "Red", so you can se the lines easier.see pic:

    Now, do the same for the left side (the rear of the boat). Do NOT connect the lines front side to the rear side of the boat!!

    When you are done, draw a box around them, highlighting them all, the click on "Match"under all the details on the right hand side. Click O.K. on the dialog box and all the lines will be red. It should look like this:
    "Group" (Located on the left side, three Ball Together" Hover cursor over, it will read "Group" and "Group" "Front" side of the boat" , to de-select an item, just hold down CTRL, and "Left Click", we are going to Mirror them, then Join them.

    Select Transform ", Osnap has "Near" Ticked", then select "Mirror", "Start of Mirror Plane will be the Keel Line", move you mouse down or up and you will see the lines appear "Mirrored" on the other side, left click and they will stay there.

    Now, Press "Ungroup" for each side. You will now join each one individually. If they did not line up exactly, no problem, Rhino will ask you if you wish to connect the two pieces, you will select yes. Rhino will add the missing piece.

    Now, "Group" the pieces you have just joined. Once "Grouped", "Lock them" by pressing the "PADLOCK" button.

    You screen should now only show the lines on the left:

    I want to check that this is loading properly
    Rhaven Blaack likes this.
  2. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    So far, so good. Now, we will Mirror and Join the lines that will be the formers for the rear part of the Hull.

    Select all the lines on the left side, and under "Transform/Mirror" Mirror the parts, using the keel line as reference, Osnap still has "Near" checked and "Ortho" is BOLD"

    Once you have mirrored them, select a line, and with the "Join Button", join each pair together.

    It will look like this:

    Here is where you must keep track of what you are doing. Double Click so that you see all 4 viewports, from the Top view, Rotate (UNDER "Transform") on of the copies of the original picture you inserted. DO NOT ROTATE THE ONE YOU DREW THE FORMERS ON!! In the right Viewport you will see a picture rotate into view with the bow (front) on your right hand side. This is what you wish.

    It should look like this:

    Soon, we will unlock everything and place the formers in their proper spot. First, we must draw a profile of the boat itself, Double Click the Right Viewport name to enlarge it. Click on picture, then Pres the Padlock so it won't move. Start tracing the outline of the Hull only. Not the centerboard, or rudder, only the Hull!

    It should look like this: 10.jpg
    Neon Neuron and Rhaven Blaack like this.
  3. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    Now, we will locate the formers to their respective places along the hull. Alone the bottom of the line on the bottom of the hull, you will see little notches. This is where the frames locate at, draw vertical lines there, with ORTHO on, to make sure they are perpendicular.

    I will continue this later:)
  4. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    11.jpg 12.jpg 13.jpg 14.jpg 15.jpg 16.jpg 17.jpg O.K.,

    So I have added lines at each point on the scale that tells me where to put the formers. I will go to EDIT/Layers/Change Object LAYERS and name a new layer "PictureFrames" to make it easier to find. I will group all the Pictures and get them out of the way for now. Before I do that, I will name each frame 1 thru 10.

    Go to the Heading "Dimension/Text Block I set the height at .25o". Make sure all frame are un-grouped, then group each number with the corresponding frame. I can know hide the Pictureframe Layer.

    From the perspective view, you know see the keel, and the frame shapes ready to be located:

    I now tick "End" in the Osnap to allow the End point to align with the keel. Nothing else is ticked. It ends up looking like this. Former 5 is doubled at the center of the boat, there are 11 total: 12.jpg

    Now, we connect the ends using the Control Point Curve. You could use Polycurve, but the resulting curve would not be as smooth. So we select on the right hand side, "Control Point Curve". Before we do that, we remove the vertical straight lines. They are no longer necessary.

    This is what is happening, I am just touching the cursor to the ends and clicking:


    Now, by "Sweeping 2 Rails, we will make the sides and bottom.

    First, we have to prepare, Under EDIT/"Control Points Off".

    Connect Top Rail to small Transom piece using "Join" . By selecting "Join", in the Command bar it will Ask, "Object for join",

    Select the Top Long curve and the shorter transom piece curve, "Right Click" and this will join the cures into one piece.this will make it one curve.

    As you can see, all 4 curves are "Joined", your Hull shoulds look like this: 15.jpg

    Now, we Sweep the Hull Into Existence. Draw a line connecting their two bow points. This will be our Profile curve.

    Select : Surface/Sweep Two rails, it will look like this: 16.jpg

    You can see in the Command Line asking for Profile Curve, select line you made at bow. If more than one option appears, croll through the options tilol only one bar shows highlighted, use that one, then right click, and the side will appear.

    Now double Click on Top View, and click onto highlight the new side you just made. Make sure Ortho is Highlighted Go to Transform and "Click" Mirror. The start of the mirror plane will be the bow, just drag down the center, and when the side is aligned perfectly, right click, and your second side will now be made.

    Now, switch to Perspective, and "Join" the two lines at the bottom of the boat

    Continued Next Post
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014
  5. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    Disregard the last picture in the last post. I don't know why it's there, and can't get rid of it! AAaargh!

    The two pieces are joined, now, under "Surface', click it, and on the drop down menu look for "Patch". With those lines joined as one curve, click "Patch", and you will have a bottom of your boat. (Click "YES" to the Dialog Box that appears.

    It should look like this: 18.jpg

    I will continue tomorrow. We will add much to this basic Sharpie boat. :)
  6. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    For those interested, here is the picture I am working with.

  7. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    I just read through this thread and it confused the HELL out of me! Pictures aren't where they are supposed to be. I think I will have to make each post a post for each step. I don't think anyone is following this. If anyone is, Ask any question, related or not, about Rhino, and I will go over it. If you have Rhino, ask ANY question, and if I can answer it I will try.

    I won't continue till I get a question and remember, it does not have to be related to this boat. ANY question about Rhino will be addressed. :)
  8. Neon Neuron

    Neon Neuron New Member

    I'm working through the tutorial first. When I complete it, I'll post my success. I read through it, first. and then started following the steps. It wasn't too difficult to understand. To be honest, this is the best tutorial for a beginner I've seen on the web, yet! :Bravo:
  9. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    I'm flattered, (funny, I don't smell anything!)

    Just for fun, let's put a top on this boat. First, Delete the red line on top. Highlight the Red Line, then on the right side, Press "Explode" Explode.jpg , it's on the left hand side . Just delete the parts on the top part of the hull. Press "Ctrl" as you delete each segment, when done, press "Join", Join.jpg to put what's left back together. This line could serve as a reference later.

    Now, select "Join" Join.jpg , and highlight the two lines running along the top of the rails of the boat, (when you select join, then press the two curves, Rhino will automatically Join them, and it will no longer appear Highlighted, check your work by Highlighting the line, it will look like this : 19.jpg

    At this point, with the "Curve Highlighted", go to the "Surface" Command Left Click, and on the drop down menu pres "Patch", when "Patch Surface Options" appears. click O.K.. and the top will appear:


    Right Click where it reads "Perspective", and click on "Display Options":

    First, Right Click" on perspective, select "Rendered". Then "go down the list and select "View', the "Rendered", then "Left Click" Rendered again and "Untick the Box that reads "Show curves". Then Click the "OK" button. This way, in "Render Mode, all the lines will be gone and you can see how the model looks. Like so:

    In the Perspective windows you can now twirl the model around to see how it looks by Press and holding the Right Click mouse button. You may also notice at this time that this could be the hull of a sailboat, or a destroyer, it's up to you. If you look closely, you will see that the bottom isn't flat. That was because when I added the fantail, I got sloppy. We'll have fun and create a proper single, or double chine hull later. We are going to chop off that tail piece next lesson. Mistakes are great, they allow you to learn how to do more things, and what not do to in the future, and also, how to get shapes in the future that you may have stumbled on inadvertently. :)
  10. Neon Neuron

    Neon Neuron New Member

    Working on the first part...
    I work through the steps a couple times, to make sure I was retaining the info.

    Laying it out..

    Half way there...

    Here I had a little trouble with the "Control Point Curve" tool doing what I need it to do. Figured it out, eventually.

    Doing the Sweep!

    Playing around with lighting, too.
  11. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    Very nice work on the stern. That part required "artistic ability". I screwed mine up a little and will have to remove a kink to make the bottom completely flat. It's tough to write these as you go along, I get sloppy. I repaired and chanced the design of the fantail a bit. I posted a pic to show you how it looks. The top has a radius on the corners but the bottom is squared. I always check, as I go along, to make sure the parts will unfold. I know what you will unfold, but it is a good habit to get into. I would like to make this boat with a small deck on the bow coming back to the main mast, which will be a Lateen rig, and rig it as a Yawl (Mast for sail is behind rudder post, that makes it a Yawl, if the mast is before the rudder post, it's a Ketch). I would like the decking go down the sides around 8 to 12 inches wide and have a deck covering much of the fantail. It gives a place for stowage and a place to sit. The cockpit will have a coaming, only a couple of inches high, and wide, to be comfortable if sitting on it is needed,, to keep water from coming in if she is heeled over on her gunwales. It will make sense as we go along, and make for a pretty model. If you have a couple of shop sticks, save them!! When you make ship models, and strive for a "real" but miniature boat, real life details are appreciated more, and people tend to want to build them. Sailors recognize their authenticity. ALso, Rhino will print to 1 to 1 so you can design a ship hull and make a rowboat or Sharpie like this, and print and connect the prints to make full size templates. Rhino is not a drawing program. It's the real thing. As you can see from the pic, this simple boat unfolds. Parts can be joined that this point if you have enough room on your paper to print and cut. :)

    Last edited: Nov 26, 2014
  12. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    Starting the deck:

    Right Click on the" Top Window and "Left Click" "Wireframe".

    You can do this many ways, but the idea is that we are going to make frames for the inside of the sharpie Hull. They will measure .250" (1/4) Inch.

    Locate the bottom of the Rectangle at the end of the line (Osnap should be on, with "End" ticked, and "Ortho" on. Your reference will be the bottom line of the boat. If not, the wood would have a gap and make the ship's seaworthiness come into question.

    Use Rotate and Rotate "
    3D" to get it into position: See Pic
    and "3D Rotate" :

    By selecting the bottom two corners of the box, the part will Rotate as if there were a Hinge there. You should just play with these commands (Open a different file!) to see how they work.


    Now, draw a line connecting the bottom two points of that Hull former, it will be Black. we take that square that you have carefully aligned, and "Extrude" it along that Black line you drew.

    Select Surface, "Extrude/Extrude along Curve". Now, you will note that the other end is not right. I showed you this way because there are time it will be very important and you can trim the end to any shape with another shape, as we will do here.

    Select "Transform, on Osnap, Tick the "Mid" box, make sure Ortho" is still highlighted. Adjust the Viewports as you need them to do what you need to do. We will be working in the top Viewport.

    Select "Top" Viewport, select Transform/. As you drag the cursor, you will see both ends go out, that is fine:


    We will use the sides of the boat to cut the ends to a perfect fit.

    Click on Perspective View and Right Click "Shaded". Select the beam you just created (make sure boat is NOT grouped), lift .250" bar so it is the thickness of the line above the floor. Having selected the beam, Press the Split button: Trim.jpg . it will read in the "Command Bar", Select Cutting Objects", select the sides of the boat, you can Rotate the boat and otherwise move it without losing the command: Now, Right Click, or press the "Enter Key"


    Click the end of the bars sticking past the Hull, and delete them (Delete what you see in the next pic:

    Flip the boat around in the Perspective View and you will see you perfect fitting floor support.

    Highlight the Board you just cut. Under Transform, Make a copy, in the Front Viewport Window. Make one copy, Right Click to stop the Copy process. Turn "Ortho Off", Osnap, only have end clicked.

    Get the copied bar in the position you see it. Keep the Bar highlighted, and under Transform, click "Move", click on the bottom, right front corner, and move it to the right front corner of the support beam on the boat.

    Position the boat in the Perpective window so it looks like what I have. Using 3D rotate under Transform, click the bottom two outside points to make that the pivot point. Rotate it so it is perpendicular with that side of the boat. Turn "Ortho" on. Slide the piece so that is is not visible from the outside of the boat. Do this in the Front View, it's easier. You can adjust other pieces as you go along, but don't go to nuts, as I usually double skin the Hulls.

    Highlight the vertical piece and Mirror it under "Transform/Mirror. Use the "Front View". Transform/Mirror, make sure "End' is ticked under Osnap, and "Ortho" is highlighted, go straight up with your cursor, and the part will be perfectly mirrored:

    New Command time, Curve from Objects". The line may already be there but the lesson is the point.

    Select "Curve", go to the bottom, "Curve from Objects/Duplicate Edge":

    We will now duplicate the top rail and connect it as one piece.

    Select Curve/Curve From Objects/Duplicate Edge". Do this in the Perspective Viewport. Deselect using Ctrl and Click:


    Pres "Enter, the, Immediately, PRESS JOIN!" Now, we have a copy of the edge of the boat, by patching it, we can use it over and over again by using the patch command and using that surface to cut parts to length.

    Now, with that line Highlighted, under Surface click "Patch", Click O.K. when the Dialog box comes up.

    Click Trim.jpg , then select the two pieces sticking up, press Enter when done, for your cutting object, select the piece you just patched into existence.

    Now, Make sure "Ortho" is Highlighted, under "Ortho, make sure the "Knot" box is ticked and under "Transform" "Copy" each bottom piece centering on the frames as you go up, it should look like this.
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
  13. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    Now, we are going to group all the pieces that we copied, but not the original one, so we press "Group", on the left hand side: Group.jpg ].

    Press Group, and group all those pieces, excluding the original one.

    In the Right view, you must make sure the pieces are over the bottom line of the hull

    Now, take one piece, They will highlight because they are grouped, and making sure "Mid" is ticked on the Osnap Box. Now Go to "Transform", "Scale 1-D", Put cursor on the Midway point and (in the Front view, make sure all bars go past hull on each side. Ungroup them after lifting them, and rotate them so they are squared up to the part of the floor at that section of the boat. Make sure Ortho is NOT Highlighted.

    Use the sides of the Hull to cut the too long pieces.

    Press [​IMG], then select the "Group", the as a"Cutting Tool", use the sides of the Hull.

    Press the over sized pieces. They will not seem cut because they are still grouped, so ungroup them located under the Group Icon. Ungroup.jpg scrap group.jpg

    It will look like this, group the pieces that will be deleted, it's quicker:

    I will pick this up later. :)
  14. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    So let's do the inside side support rails. Click on each rail and click under "Solid"/"Cap Planar Holes". This will put a nice cap on the hollow tubes.

    Trim.jpg So let's do the inside side support rails. Click on each rail and click under "Solid"/"Cap Planar Holes". This will put a nice cap on the hollow tubes.

    The best way to do this, and avoid accrued intolerance is to make a new 4" square beam, too long, so we can trim them back in one shot. Turn Othro on. In the Curve, select "Rectangle", then in the Command box type 0,0 press enter ("0", not "O"), Make sure whatever Viewport you are working in is in Wireframe! Select the square and under "Surface" slide down to "Extrude Curve", slide over and select "Straight".

    That should be long enough. Delete the square you started with, you only need the beam.

    Otho is turned off. Osnap has only "End" ticked. Pick the bottom right corner, and bring the piece over to the same corner on the floor beam. Under Transform, select "Copy", Copy and place a vertical beam to the proper point on the floor beam. It should look like this: VerticalBeamCopy.jpg

    We will have to Rotate each one of these into place.
    Double click the Right Viewport, as we will have to use that one. Make sure Ortho is NOT highlighted. Osnap should have "End" still ticked. Select the first one, select the point closest to the hull. You will see the line that you must align the vertical support with. The line will brighten a bit when you have touched that line, that can help tell you if you have the right one. Group the vertical beams all together once you have adjusted them into the right place, when all have been selected (excluding the first two that are done) click "Enter".

    Now we will Mirror this group. Ortho is now ON Click "Transform/Mirror (You should be in the "Top" Viewport. Highlight the Beam Group first, then all you have to do is put the cursor on the tip of the Bow and drag the cursor down, and you will see the vertical bars on both sides.

    Now, remember that line we "Duplicated around the top perimeter? Select that, then select under "Surface", click O.K. on the Pop Up Menu and the top will appear solid. This will be out cutting tool. In the Perspective Viewport, select "Render"

    Pic of curve selected, Press "Ortho" now, if you haven't already:

    Pic of Patch:

    To make sure Verticals cut, select "Transform/Scale 1D", don't be shy, make it wide.:

    Cutting Verticals with Patched Surface, Select Trim.jpg Trim, then when prompted what objects to "Trim", select both groups, press Enter, when prompted for the "Cutting Tool", select the Patched Deck".

    Select top sections and delete them, and the patched deck too. Pic: R111.jpg

    I am going to add some texture now, but will explain it tomorrow. I promise.

    Attached Files:

  15. Neon Neuron

    Neon Neuron New Member

    I keep getting stuck on the "Rotate 3D". It will only rotate XY axis and I can't get it to rotate on any other one.
  16. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    When you use the "Rotate 3D" command, the first two points you are establishing are equivalent to hinges on a door. Once you select those two points, then it will rotate using those two points as the axis of Rotation. Make sure you select the surface you are trying to align the part to. That will tell you what points to choose.

    Make a new part. This is just a block 1 foot square:

    Select "Rotate 3D", and select the opposite corners of the box (MAKE SURE ORTHO is TURNED OFF!!). It must always be turned off when doing rotate commands. You only keep it on it you want to rotate something a perfect 90 degres: R2.jpg

    Now, you can see the part Rotating on the corners that you have selected as it's axis or Rotation:

    It's Final resting point, choose wherever you wish, then press "Enter" or "Right Click": R4.jpg

    Start over again, set Osnap to only "Mid" box ticked. Select points opposite each side, let the cursor find the "Mid" points. B5.jpg
    You can now see the part rotate on the midpoint axis. You may have Ortho on, if it is, turn it OFF. Play around rotating this square, using Osnap to locate different points, leave all 4 Viewports open and use which ever Viewport that allows you to Rotate it most easily. Let me know how it works out:

    Final resting point.

  17. Neon Neuron

    Neon Neuron New Member

    I think "Ortho" may a contributed to my frustration. I keep forgetting to un-click it after certain steps. "OnSnap" is proving to be very useful.
  18. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    Let me know when you are ready to continue. :)

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