Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Model Railroading' started by R. MARTIN, Sep 22, 2006.

  1. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Active Member

    I'm a little confused. You seem to be freely switching from On3 to Sn3 while mentioning that it is
    O is roughly twice HO - 1:48 vs 1:87 - and I'm not sure what S is. Can you elaborate?
  2. nkp174

    nkp174 Active Member

    S is in between HO and O...1:64. I believe its origins were originally for American Flyer trains....BUT! It has since become a super high quality scale model option.

    If you take an On3 car, Hon3, and HO...set them side by side...you'll see that the HO standard gauge car is halfway in between the HOn3 and On3 cars. This is comparable to an Sn3 car.

    Frequently people will take HO 56.5" gauge mechanisms and use them in Sn3. Something that is also very handy...HOn3 is the same track gauge as Sn2.

    I currently have HOn3 and On3 (and a couple On2 cars). Despite this, Sn3 fascinates me because I consider the trains to be big enough to work with...but yet still small enough to have nice scenary.
  3. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Active Member

    Interesting - thaks for the info.

    Despite the seemingly growing interest in larger and larger scales, HOn3 will likely be as large as a I go in order to encompass what I want into a reasonably sized layout. Even at that it will probably require a good deal of compromise.
  4. on30francisco

    on30francisco New Member

    I tried modeling HOn3 several years ago but found it was too small and good running, affordable locos didn't (and still don't) exist. Sn3 would seem to be a better size but again, locos are very pricey. I am currently a multi scaler and do On30 and Large Scale narrow gauge - both Fn3 and Gn15 (LS on HO track) - indoors. Large Scale takes up a LOT of space but the ease of working with it and the detail more than makes up for it - and the availability of affordable, quality locos in both On30 and Large Scale is great (Thank you Bachmann).
  5. Greg Elems

    Greg Elems Member

    Actually Sn3.5 or Sn42 uses HO standard gauge track.

    Greg Elems
  6. jhh72

    jhh72 New Member

    Hi all..gees i hope this doesnt sound silly,, regarding HOn3 rollingstock here in Australia it appears to be hard to locate new and used..have found cpl of places to import and not cheap..heaps on ebay but o-seas...im curious..is HOn3 rollingstock( although on narrower track) the same dimensions as HO rollingstock? could one use HOscale flatcars,box cars and stock cars for example from the Denver rio Grande western era and convert the trucks ? or are HOn3 rollingstock dimensions all to thier own?I must admit i have never seen a single piece of HOn3,but i understand the basics that its narrow gauge at HO Scale? I have done a few searches and actually all my findings say the same its HO scale but on narrow guage track?some pictures tell me HOn3 is NOT the same actual size as HO rolling stock...

    Cheers Jas
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
  7. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Active Member

    Funny site - you can't join it. The registration field refuses to acknowledge an identity name, no matter what set of letters you give it. I tried no less than twenty co0mbinations, some of them entirely nonsense letter combinations made up on the spot, only to be told each time that the "ID was taken". I'm a little rusty on my math, but I seem to recall the odds on a totally random set of characters being "already taken" using multiple sets as somewhere in the range of astronomical to completely incalcuable.

    too bad - it looked interesting.
  8. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Active Member

    Unfortunately, no. Locos have narrower frames and are smaller overall, cars are shorter and narrower, and cabooses are also shorter and narrower. What does remain the same are buildings, people and so forth, obviously.

    If you can, look up pictures of narrow vs standard guage stuff from the same time period and compare them to get a rough idea of the size difference. Or look up the Cumbres and Toltec narrow gauge tourist line and take a look at the loco, which was converted down from standard to narrow gauge. It overhangs the tracks quite noticably and just doesn't "look right".
  9. Triplex

    Triplex Active Member

    You're thinking of the K-37. I don't believe any of those are still running. Yes, they were converted from standard guage engines, and yes, they are huge on the track. However, they look very similar to the K-36 class, which were built new as narrow gauge engines.

    RailPictures.Net Photo » Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad Steam 2-8-2
    RailPictures.Net Photo » Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad Steam 2-8-2
    RailPictures.Net Photo » Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad Steam 2-8-2

    For me, the large size of these engines proportional to the track is the source of their appeal.

    Some narrow gauge equipment was converted from standard gauge. The DRGW had some flatcars like this. The Newfoundland Railway (3'6" gauge, not 3', but anyway...) used mostly regauged standard gauge cars in CN days. But yes, you will have to get mostly narrow-gauge-specific equipment.
  10. nkp174

    nkp174 Active Member

    Here are a couple of pictures that might help...

    The standard gauge box car is a 40 footer by Silver Streak. The standard gauge bobber is by Mantua. The 3' gauge bobber is from Grandt Line and the 3' boxcar is a 30 footer from Grandt Line. All are HO scale.

    If you're looking for the easiest HOn3 to model...I'd recommend the Rio Grande. Grandt Line's D&RGW freight cars run about $20 US and are just plain gorgeous. They just need a little additional weight added. There are also plenty of other suppliers such as Rail Line, Labelle (which offers passenger cars for around $30), and Precision Scale. Motive power can come in the form of brass engines (which sometimes go for close to $200 for older ones) or in the beautiful new engines from MMI (a Precision Scale division) or Blackstone models. The old MDC/Roundhouse HOn3 outside frame 2-8-0 is a decent model to letter for D&RGW #375. The inside frame isn't really a model of anything.

    Free lance is nice too.

    As far as bolt counting which goes with the hobby, all of us have a "good enough" level. For me this is having a locomotive and cars that stand up to a moderate glance of a knowledgeable railfan. For instance, a hudson lettered in D&RGW bubble bee is not an acceptable locomotive for my railroad. But either a Bachmann On30 mogul for a C&S Brooks mogul or the fore mentioned MDC 2-8-0 are acceptable. On the other hand, the more interest I have in something, the more detail I want.

    I recommend starting off with D&RGW stuff since it is easy to come by. If you find that you prefer the Cincinnati Northern, Irish railroads, or the Kansas Central...you have a good feel for HOn3...and have something to run until you rare equipment finds its way to your railroad.

    Attached Files:

  11. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

    The K-37s were, for the most part, not operated. K-37 # 497 was operational when traded from the D&SNG in 1991. The K-37s were converted from standard gauge 2-8-0s at the Burnham shops in Denver, in 1928,and 1930
  12. nkp174

    nkp174 Active Member

    I can vividly remember watching 497's tender bounce back and forth in the early evening as my brother, father, and I rode in the open gondola approaching Antonito...we were badly sun burned...but I remember that day far more vividly than my ride up the D&S a couple days earlier...that was in the mid-90's.

    EDIT: Sumpter, nice clarification! I too was intending to mention that the D&RGW did the conversion...not the tourist lines.

    The K-37s look okay in my opinion...it's the Cumbras & Toltec "coaches" that were converted from freight cars that look odd.
  13. AmericanAirFan

    AmericanAirFan New Member

    Wow that last picture makes the engine look like a beast you can't even clearly see the wheels. Interesting topic I think HOn3 would kill me if I ever tried it wall1

  14. nkp174

    nkp174 Active Member

    It's the fact that it is an outside frame locomotive. HOn3 is probably easier the N-scale...in that the stuff is larger.
  15. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

    Yes!, and exponentially easier than Nn3!! balloon6
  16. nkp174

    nkp174 Active Member

    But Nn3 is cheaper...

    Although I can't really comprehend how boxcars can be 4x smaller than my 26' On3 boxcar :eek:
  17. Triplex

    Triplex Active Member

    Well, O is actually only 3.33x larger than N...
  18. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

    :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

    Yes! :thumb: in linear measurement. It's 11.0889 times in square footage, and 36.926037 times in volume, which becomes readily apparent when you run out of scenery material so much more quickly!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

    Sorry, Triplex, I couldn't resist, after working in HO for so long, I did a tree in O scale, the same size (forty scale feet tall), and it took a minute or so to figure where all my scenery materials went, and that was only 5.9543456 times bigger in volume! :eek: wall1 :mrgreen:

    (it would be 8 times for 7mm=1foot O scale)
  19. nkp174

    nkp174 Active Member

    And when it comes to the weights of cars...viscosities of liquids...etc...some things do not scale linearly.
  20. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

    For example, an Atlas passenger station kit, while the HO scale kit is almost twice the size of the N scale, the N scale kit is twice the price! And, there are figures on my Ntrak module that have far bigger egos than my O scale figures...........go "figure" :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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