Flying Scotsman and Princess Elizabeth

Discussion in 'Getting Started' started by RobertInOntario, Sep 6, 2006.

  1. RobertInOntario

    RobertInOntario Active Member

    Just wondering if any British train fans know when the LNER Flying Scotsman & LMS Princess Elizabeth were built and when they each went into service?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. RailRon

    RailRon Active Member

    The LNER 'Flying Scotsman' #4472 (here is a picture) was built as a 3-cylinder Gresley A1 Pacific in 1923. 1934 she officially topped 100mph - and for this she became world famous. (However, 1935 another A3 #2750 'Papyrus' was even 5 mph faster, but this went by almost unnoticed!)

    The LMS class 7P Pacific #6201 'Princess Elisabeth' (here's a picture, too) was built 1933.

    Both engines are preserved. However, I don't know when and where they are (still) running (again)???


  3. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic Member

    Looking at those two engines it's easy to see where Thomas the Tank Engine came from. I always thought Thomas and his friends were a bit cartoonish and clowny, but that's the way the engines were really made in that part of the world.
  4. RobertInOntario

    RobertInOntario Active Member

    Thanks, Ron! That's helpful and makes sense. My wife (who is English) and I visit family in England almost every year. I know that the Princess Elizabeth is still running and making special trips. Last October, some of our family members saw it and rode on it near Manchester. It was in fine form.

    The Flying Scotsman is also preserved and still runs. It's recently been purchased by the National Railway Museum in York and is (I believe) undergoing major repairs and restoration at the moment.

    Thanks again.
  5. RobertInOntario

    RobertInOntario Active Member

    Yes, and the several heritage railways over there will often paint up a small 0-6-0 tank engine in the blue and red Thomas colours so that you essentially have a real Thomas! Thomas events at the heritage railways in Britain are excellent, because the locos that appear there as Thomas, James, Daisy the Diesel railcar, etc., etc., are the real thing!

    My family and I visited one of these in 2005 and it was great fun. And yes, British locos can look strange and unusual to North Americans with their buffers, tank engines, tiny headlamps. My main model railway interest is actually in modelling British locos (although I do have a few North American ones as well).

    I think it's all relative as to which locos are "cartoonish and clowny"! :)
  6. shaygetz

    shaygetz Active Member

    I've always loved British steam for its color. I'd love to own a Duchess of Cornwall, that lavender would have my friends at the train club fainting dead away in the aisles.:thumb:
  7. 60103

    60103 Pooh Bah

    Mr Music: Gordon is the same class as Flying Scotsman. Awdry based all his engines on real ones, but his artists let him down. One artist didn't believe the loco as he drew it, so it came out differently. (Need to check details.) There was one (the same one?) who refused to go down to the station to see what they looked like. See the book The Thomas-the-Tank-Engine Man which is a biography of Awdry.
    Robert: have you been buying more Tri-Ang?
  8. RobertInOntario

    RobertInOntario Active Member

    Thanks, David. That's really interesting about Gordon's loco class, how all the locos were modelled after real ones, etc., and Awdry's problems with artists. Actually, I'm fascinated with biographical info and I did find an Awdry family website that had lots of interesting stuff on Awdry. I'm also intrigued that Awdry's father was (I believe) a railway man and so is Awdry's son. And it also sounds like the grandson is as well! -- I guess he almost has no choice. :)

    Actually, I read once that the success of the Thomas stories was due in part to the fact that they were quite realistic -- i.e., Awdry told fairly realistic stories about what trains do in real life -- mail trains, freight trains going to salt mines, passenger train runs, etc. You can learn a lot of railway stuff from simply reading these books!

    I'd really like to get a copy of that book, The Thomas-the-Tank-Engine Man. Are they readily available and do they cost much? I'm also planning to go to the model train flea market this Sunday, so maybe I'll find one there?

    No, I haven't bought any Triang locos -- you guys basically put me off that (thanks, it was a good thing)! I still run a mixture of Dublo, older Hornby as well as modern Hornby though.

  9. 60103

    60103 Pooh Bah

    Rob: I've had the bio for a number of years; itis a bg book and might have been $40 to 50.
    Awdry based many of his stories on actual happenings; he always tried to make them possible. I think some of the recent additions have been a biy un-plausible.
  10. RailRon

    RailRon Active Member

    Rob, I made a quick search on Amazon und found the reference here.

    As you can see, the book is obviously out of print, and just as obvioulsy it is a much sought-after item. Thus the whopping second hand price of $132! :eek:

    Perhaps you'll be luckier if you look for it at e-bay?

  11. RobertInOntario

    RobertInOntario Active Member

    Thanks, Ron. I appreciate your checking. But at $132 I certainly can't afford one! Maybe I will check this out on eBay! Cheers, Rob
  12. RobertInOntario

    RobertInOntario Active Member

    Thanks again, David. Yes, I also believe that the older, original stories (the ones actually written by Awdry) were based on realistic train events. So I try to buy the originals or at least get ones that are BASED on the originals.

    But I totally agree that most of the modern/recent Thomas stories -- almost certainly written by other writers -- are just silly, unrealistic train stories. Sadly, the charm and character of the originals is also lost.

    However, there's a good Thomas series out now, where the original stories seem to be simplified or shortened for very young children. So my wife & I are trying to buy some of these.

    Having two young sons, we end up reading quite a few Thomas stories!

    Cheers, Rob

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