WW&F - MC Based Track Plan

Discussion in 'Track Planning' started by James R. Barney, Sep 17, 2003.

  1. James R. Barney

    James R. Barney New Member

    Circa 1994-5 I saw a plan in a book of plans for a dual gauge
    waterfront layout. It was an inverted U or W shaped, around the
    walls, room size point-to-point layout that had both narrow and "standard" gauge trackage patterned after the WW&F - MC configuration at Wiscasset, Maine. It included wharf tracks similar to the WW&F setup, a compact steam engine yard and an interchange track at the depot on the right side. As I recall, the left side of the inverted U included another yard and possibly another waterfront area. There may have been hidden loop
    return tracks, but if so, that has faded from my memory. It is not
    in any of the currently available Kalmbach publications. And, no, it
    was not the Atlantic Air Line plan shown in 101 Track Plans for Model Railroaders. Does anyone remember what book this plan is in ?

    As well as corresponding with the AC Kalmbach Memorial Library
    at the NMRA, I've posted this query at the Model Railroader Forum page, and at the forum run by the Back Drop Warehouse, but so far it hasn't jogged anyone's memory.

    The book was shop worn so I didn't buy it. At the time I lacked
    the space for such a layout, but I've kicked myself ever since for not adding it to my library. You can never have too many railroad
    books !
  2. jon-monon

    jon-monon Active Member

    Don't have that one, but welcome to the gauge!!!
  3. James R. Barney

    James R. Barney New Member

    Thank you, sir. Like your graphics.
  4. grlakeslogger

    grlakeslogger Member

    About what size room are we talking about? And, for what scale? I can check my own library this weekend. Any idea whether the plan book was recent or older? --Stu--
  5. James R. Barney

    James R. Barney New Member

    WW&F - MC Layout Plan

    I don't remember the room size of the plan, but would adapt it to fit a roughly 30' by40' space. The plan was professionaly drawn, not by Bill Schopp, and judging by the apparent density, I believe the original plan was for HO or N. Can't remember if the narrow gauge was still 2' or had been widened to 3', as I would do. Based on the style and sophistication of the plan, I think it and the book it was in were from circa 1990. I do remember the plan was about 1/3 of the way through the book and the page size was in the 8 /12 by 11 inch nominal size. Don't remember whether it was hard or soft covered. Do remember that, at the time, I wasn't worried about finding another copy because although Borders had only one soiled copy, I recognized the author and publisher. Why, oh why, didn't I scrounge a piece of paper and write down the particulars ? Funny the way my mind works, eh ? Thanks for your kind offer to look. Hope you find something you can use, if you do have the opportunity.
  6. grlakeslogger

    grlakeslogger Member


    Well, Bob, I took a look at what I've got here and am not at all sure I have what you're after. One really neat Maine-based plan I did find was "The Maine & Vermont RR" in 18 Tailor-made Trackplans , by John Armstrong, Kalmbach, c.1983, 1988. It's designed for HO standard gauge 19 ft. x 13 ft. I noted it because it has the shape you want and would be very easily extended to the right to encompass narrow gauge.

    Another is "The Sandy River and Rangely Lakes" by John Armstrong in John Armstrong on Creative Layout Design , Kalmbach, c. 1978. It's designed for 7/16n2 scale at 26 ft. x 38 ft. No waterfront, but some great Maine narrow gauge.

    You might try your own search at http://index.mrmag.com/ . Cookies must be enabled and registraion is free. It's a great model RR magazine search engine with a trackplan locator.

    I always look at Maine inspired layouts ever since the Navy sent me there to overhaul a frigate in the late seventies. If I ever got out of logging, I'd do Maine narrow gauge. I have some more thoughts for you, if you'd care to e-mail me thru THE GAUGE. Please put MAINE NARROW GAUGE in the subject line so I do not delete as spam. --Stu--
  7. James R. Barney

    James R. Barney New Member

    Hi Stu,
    Many thanks for the search. Unfortunately it doesn't sound as though either of those layouts is the right one. I have a copy of the article on the Sandy River and Rangeley Lakes, and from your description, the other plan doesn't cover the Wiscasset waterfront with 2 foot gauge on the wharf and "standard" gauge trackage. But, I will get a copy from NMRA to glean any useful bits. My bibliography on waterfront track plans, compiled primarily from the Index of Magazines at the Kalmbach site using a variety of search terms, now runs six pages and the file folder is getting really fat. Another site I hadn't mentioned where I posted this same query is:
    Several members there have also tried to help, but thus far we haven't been successful. I will be using ideas gleaned from layout articles of Chris McChesney, Bob Hayden, Bob Brown, Peter Barney, and Donald A. Clerke, so in that sense, the search has been very worthwhile.
  8. grlakeslogger

    grlakeslogger Member

    Maine Narrow Gauge

    I have Don Clerke's article from the March 1982 MR (including trackplan) open in front of me right now. I found it just before lunch. Frary's and Hayden's articles ae terrific--I read many of the originals in RMC in the 70's. Please do not overlook their books about scenery and structure detailing because a lot of the photos for the books were shot on the C&DR Ry.

    One other source of books and supplies useful in modeling Maine narrow gauge is at http://www.trainandtrooper.com/ . These guys have a mouth-watering array of stuff.

    In doing the search for you, I came across a photo I've been trying to locate for my own scenic planning. It's the lead color photo in the Don Clerke article. I have a very similar river and hillside situation on my own layout. Amazing how that works, huh?

    So what scale and what era are you doing this in? Could you please share a trackplan with us when you get that far? I, for one, would love to see it! --Stu--
  9. James R. Barney

    James R. Barney New Member

    I model in HO and HOn3, which is what my version of the track plan will be, since I can't remember if the narrow gauge portion of the plan I saw was in 2' or 30." (May have to ease a few curves.) If it works out, I'll post a plan. One thing is certain, as soon as we locate the target plan, I definitely will post a reference to it. My era is roughly anything before 1917 or 1918, to accommodate what has appealed to me. I am really hung up on the rail transport - water transport interface as my theme. (Yeah, I'd like a ferry slip as well, if only to provide a fiddle yard, but the MC's "Ferdinando Gorges" is a bit large.) Thanks for the tip about Train and Trooper, I was aware of them. As is probably true for lots of others, my tastes exceed my budget in both money and time.
  10. James R. Barney

    James R. Barney New Member

    Stu and others,
    I hope that my statement that the track plan is based on the WW&F track arrangement at Wiscasset is not being taken too literally by anyone helping me locate the plan. True, the plan includes the narrow gauge wharf trackage and an interchange with the MC. But, looking at the schematics in some of Dick Andrews' articles and in Jones and Register's "Two Feet to Tidewater," I should note that the steam engine yard is flopped from the prototype. That is, instead of being at the North end of the track map, the yard was moved to the South of the wharf and the MC interchange. On the published plan, what would be prototype North was at the bottom of the plan (which is kind of contrary to most map conventions).
  11. shamus

    shamus Registered Member

    Hello and welcome to the gauge JR, nice to see you.

    As for that plan, I seem to remember (Might be wrong) but wasn't it in the 101 track plans by Kalmbach from years ago. I have the book somewhere, I will dig it out and have a look for you.
  12. James R. Barney

    James R. Barney New Member

    Thanks for the welcome. Certainly don't wish to discourage anyone whom is kind enough to help me find the track plan I'm seeking. But, I don't believe it is in Kalmbach's "101 Track Plans for Model Railroaders," by Lynn Westcott. The "Atlantic Air LIne" on pages 4 and 5 of that booklet is similar in that it is an inverted U plan and has lots of shoreline low percentage grades, but it doesn't have the wharf trackage patterned after the Wiscasset, Waterville and Farmington - Maine Central area at Wiscasset, Maine. Again, thank you.
  13. grlakeslogger

    grlakeslogger Member

    Layout Planning Agonies

    We all agonize over parts of our layout plans. I worked mine out with Cadrail. Boone Morrison, who writes a great column for the Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette, detailed the process of planning and executing a waterfront town scene on his HOn3 North Coast Narrow Gauge back near the start of the series. It concerned the town of Marshalls on his layout. He is up to about Pt. 40 in the series now, so that had to have been about 5 years ago. I'd read those articles if you have the back issues, or you probably could purchase them from NG&SLG.

    Another approach might work if you have access to a copier that does proportional copying or a scanner, printer, and Adobe Photo software (which lets you re-size images). Sketch what you'd like, scan it, re-size as necessary (I've just photo-copied, but the scanner approach should work), and print a few copies. Use a scissors to cut out the yard throat(s) and any other major features. Slide them around on a drawing of your space until you get what you want. Then, get out the drawing board, and draw it for keeps. I've used cut-up photocopies to plan layouts occasionally. They did not always produce an image that turned into a working layout, but they never muddied the waters, either. --Stu--
  14. James R. Barney

    James R. Barney New Member

    It's a fine line between efficiency and laziness, and I'm not always sure which side of the line I fall on. Really thought that others might have bought the book with the track plan in it and it would just be a simple job of making some changes - such as doing the narrow gauge portion in HOn3, instead of HOn2 or HOn30. I planned to get the book through used book Web sites or on Inter Library Loan. I thought that the professionally done plan would have already worked out the gross dimensions, radii, switch numbers, etc., saving me the trouble. Thanks for the tip about the Boone Morrison article, I'll check and see if my back numbers of the NG&SLG include that issue. If not, I'll try the Kalmbach Memorial Library, etc.
    I've used enlargement/reduction copier features in the past and have used my Print Shop Deluxe software to optimize .jpg and .bmp files, so I'm not opposed to computer technology. But, I was hoping to avoid CadCam software or its equivalent. Will be using modified portions of the work of Robert W. Brown, Chris McChesney, Dick Andrews and others for the Wiscasset portion, probably via cut and paste.
  15. txcavgr

    txcavgr Member

    First, if you like maine narrow guage, yes, contact matt and martha up at train and trooper, up til about a year and a half ago they were our LHS then they moved up to Phillips. Great people! Hopefully they will be down here in two weeks at the Auburn ME train show nov. 1.

    Second, is it possible that the track plan you are thinking of was for the carrabasset and dead river layout that was featured in MR? it was either dave frary or bob haydens layout, frary I think. Sounds just like it and the date would be right. So would the shape.

    If this doesn't help, I can forward your post to a buddy on the atlas forum who is a wealth of maine railroad info.

    ps- if you are interested, email me offline, I have some pics I took this fall of the old coal unloading trestle in wiscasset that used to feed the big power plant, all rail.

Share This Page