Why card models are always underestimated?

Discussion in 'Zealot Archives' started by Hans Christian, Aug 19, 2006.

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  1. Hans Christian

    Hans Christian Active Member

    This is really getting long... :-D

    Since I admit I love both mediums, I always mix and match them when I can.

    When I'm building plastic models, I don't put any AM parts into them, simply they cost more that the model itself (and I have a low budget when building), so sometimes, I draw parts in card then install them inside, or out, and so far, I'm very pleased with the results. And also, I'm very fond of repairing old broken down plastic models, because I actually use parts from my card model collection to repair them, and its now becoming a "sub-hobby" for me :-D

    And when I'm doing card models, I'm now incorporating the possibility of making panel lines (either by scoring and/or gluing individual panels to the surface of the model so that the panels would make gaps that will be the new panel lines), erasing seams etc. so that I can paint & redecal them like a plastic model.

    I agree that when it comes to the eyes of the "plastic" veterans, no matter how well build a card model may be, it would still be not as good as a plastic one.

    But its really not right for them to say things like that to models made from this medium. They should keep their opinions to themselves, I mean, I didn't see anyone here who posted mean things against plastic models right?...
  2. cygielski

    cygielski Member

    I promised myself to ignore this thread, but I just have to respond to this one. I think you can safely say that plastic models will generally be more realistic, but you're stepping into a minefield with judgment calls like better/worse looking. To me, card models look better despite being less realistic. :)

    I'd say just the opposite: plastic modeling is more artistic (more painting, weathering, etc.) and card modeling is more technical (mostly about the model's construction).

    :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: !!!!! A 14-foot paper model? I'd like to see that!
  3. k5083

    k5083 Member

    Well, in context, the FSM thread was a response to a guy who was considering how to model a particular subject, and the opinion was called for so I don't see any problem with the guy expressing his view.

    What amused me was that the subject under discussion -- a 1/72 Wright Flyer -- was one of those where plastic has few, if any, advantages over paper. A Wright Flyer consists of six flat (or slightly cambered) surfaces, a lot of sticks, and some hardware (engines, props, drivetrain). No compound curves. Hard to see why paper wouldn't be perfectly adequate for that project. Oh well.

  4. Hans Christian

    Hans Christian Active Member

    I definitely agree on this one
  5. airbob

    airbob Member

    Plastic versus card...

    A beauty of a "hobby" is that it makes you feel good when you work at it! And whether plastic or card...though I prefer card...if it gives you enjoyment...just do it!!! I l do find that the option to refashion the original models in card by allowing any size is fascinating....as well as allowing redesigning almost any part of the original model to my liking... if I don't like the original contour color or detail is very engrossing...and really an option only found in card modeling...my collection of 1:120 airplanes is something that I could not have accomplished with plastic models...But still the KEY is to do what gives your soul joy!!!:rofl:
  6. possm_23

    possm_23 Member

    I like plastic....I use it to pay for my paper....lol:twisted: :rofl: :rofl:
  7. Texman

    Texman Guest

    How long have you been working on that one possm?
    It is good!

  8. GT5500

    GT5500 Member

    Yeah seems silly considering the wright flyer can be made very convincingly out of stick and tissue, which is not a million miles away from cardstock, and tissue is a type of paper anyway so no reason why that couldn't be used.
  9. possm_23

    possm_23 Member

    believe it or not...it just kinda fell in to my head........:) :twisted:
  10. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Because it involves a skill and they(the plastic modeler) would rather have the plastic model manufacturer do for them.

    So they(the plastic modeler) can gleam all of the accolades from just assembling a plastic model from all the pre-shaped bits!

    Cardmodeling and balsa & tissue modeling requires skills that involve more than just assembling parts............ more artistic. Plastic parts are already shaped, while our hobby requires taking a flat object(paper or balsa wood) and shaping it by hand.

    Alright that should stir up some stuff!


    Oh and possm............ I thought that was very good too! Wish I had posted it!
  11. Even though I am a member of the IMPS I find most plastic kit modeling unfullfilling. Now scratch building is something else. While there are quite a bit of plastic bits and pieces available from Plastruct etc to make some things easier plastic does have the advantage over card for some things. Compound curves for example. But there is a certain amount of cross breeding going on. Ship modelers using Card Models as templates for wood or styrene models. Plastic scratchbuilders doing test builds in paper. Some subjects could be done in either paper or styrene. Looks at this


    While not a subject everyone can get interested in the model here could of been done in paper as well as styrene. This tutorial by Cris Doll on building a model Farscapes Moya has a lot of tips for scratchbuilders working in any medium.


    You know we long ago gave up shooting the messenger for delivering bad news. Perhaps it is past time to give up "shooting" the model for the build media.
  12. Jim Nunn

    Jim Nunn Member

    “Why card models are always underestimated?”

    I have often competed head to head with plastic models (Armor categories) at IPMS shows and have taken several thirds a few seconds and one first. My experience is that modelers respect good work be it wood, plastic, resin or paper. I think the issue is that the plastic community does not comprehend what can be done in paper all we need to do is show our best work they will come around.

    As for recognition of paper models, the IPMS nationals that will be held in Anaheim California in 2007 will have show categories for paper models. The adding of a category for our models was brought about by the hard work of David T. Oakamura and Bob Penikas both members of this list and long time members of the Orange County IPMS which is hosting the 2007 nationals. I have also had correspondence with the IPMS publication and they are well aware of the interest in paper models. I suspect that if the paper modeling community were to submit articles to the IPMS journal that they would consider publishing them.

    Now a challenge to the group we need to show our models at the IPMS Nationals in 2007. This is the largest display of superb models in the US (and perhaps the world) it is not uncommon to have thousands of models on display and attendance is in the tens of thousands. I have been giving some thought to making arrangements to receive, setup and return ship models from paper modelers who will not be able to attend the nationals. So I am asking, is this something that the members of the forum would be willing to participate in. To display at the nationals you have to be a member of the national IPMS that appears to be the only requirement.

    What are your thoughts?

    Jim Nunn
  13. Hans Christian

    Hans Christian Active Member

    Speaking of IPMS...

    our chapter here doesn't allow models made of paper to be entered as competition models (which for me is very sad...).

    Their requirement is for the model to be at least 50% plastic...

    They only allow them as display models for the event...
  14. GT5500

    GT5500 Member

    Thats ridiculous a plastic model is no more scale then a paper model as most likely the original would not have been made from either material. What is the reason they give for you not being allowed to enter?
  15. SteveM

    SteveM Member

    I don't know if this is their argument, but I would guess it is because the "P" in IPMS stands for "plastic".
  16. blueeyedbear

    blueeyedbear Member

    IPMS does stand for International Plastic Modeling Society (I used to be a member before I gave up competition model building) and some of the chapters are really arrogant about only allowing plastic models in contests.

    But my "best of show" diorama was a plastic P-38 in a balsa wood hanger with real light bulbs with batteries and copper wire, metal figures and other components, and a scratch built balsa Piper L-4. The roof was paper brushed with glue and sprinkled with sand to make it more "roof-looking". The pigeons on the roof were carved out of pine match sticks and their droppings were white paint. The reason for the diorama was that I couldn't get a decent aluminum finish on the Lightening and my wife suggested installing it in a hanger so the blemishes wouldn't show up!

    Other shows would not have accepted it, even after the head judge said "Wow!" After all you can't bring restored Ford Model A to a motorcycle show.

    Most of the IPMS members I have known would love to add a paper model section to their contests. It would bring in more people and generate more publicity.

    And for the forum members who insist that plastic modeling is just taking the parts out of a box and gluing them together --- you ain't never even tried to build a plastic model for LOCAL competition, much less regional or larger! The prepainted plastic or metal snap together models don't count --- they're toys, not models! (But if it gets a kid interested in the hobby.........)

  17. blueeyedbear

    blueeyedbear Member

    No doubt about it, paper models are more fun to build.

    That's what it's all about, isn't it?:grin:

  18. mOONwOKA

    mOONwOKA Member

    This issue is rather ironic, because ALL modelers are regarded ar... well, not very sane... by most "common" people, whom i call "civilians". And yet even among ourselves they cannot avoid quibble. I myself am both card- and plastic modeler. And i don't think, that building plastic models is so much easier than card models.

    Yes, you do get preshaped parts. Yes, you only need to assemble, correct blemishes, scratchbuild, fill, sand, add detail, paint, weather. Just that. In the form of cardmodel you get... well, you get parts already created by someone, only they are flat. And if something is incorrect, you cannot strip paint or sand wrong shapes. My point is that both medias have their own shortcomings. Both are rewarding in the result. And both can be bettered with even more different medias - vacformed canopies, metal gear struts, PE parts, rigging etc. And i like them both. Oh, and in both cases even the best kit can be spoiled if approached bluntantly.

    Furthermore, let us not forget "purists" that are on both sides. To sum everything up, who cares, which one is better (because none actually is ), if it is hobby, meant to make YOU happy. And if you make a model for somebody else, he or she does not care, what it is made from. He or she is just very happy. This is what REALLY matters...
  19. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

    When is cellulose not-plastic?

    You could challenge this by making a cardmodel out of waterproof printing material. This is the material used for waterproof maps and technically isn't paper. The only way that you can distinguish it from paper is that it doesn't dissolve in water.

    You could go ahead and enter a cardmodel made out of this material.
    Will judges require dunk testing?

    I can see the headlines. "Modeler caught using paper."

  20. Hans Christian

    Hans Christian Active Member

    Well, even though I am a member, the thing is I really don't know why...

    Also, many of my colleagues (especially some of the senior members, but not all), are against the idea, and they always "kill" my suggestion of putting card models on the contest. But on the other hand, some of them are not against the idea (and some even recommend it...)

    If I could remember it, their primary reason why they don't allow it is that only I could ever enter one, because basically, I am the only regular member of our chapter who builds card models... (and also [based on my theory anyway], is that card models will have no chance of winning against its plastic counterparts...)

    Also, our founder passed away about 3 years ago, and we decided to name the chapter after him, and maybe, if they ever allow card models into the contest, it may ruin the legacy of what our founder had started...

    So the only way a card model to be allowed in the nationals is to build it, but using sheet styrene, which unfortunately, is a very rare modeling material here in our place, only pro modelers know where to get the material, and the financial resources to obtain it. (styrene is too expensive for my budget)
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