Why card models are always underestimated?

Discussion in 'Zealot Archives' started by Hans Christian, Aug 19, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. blueeyedbear

    blueeyedbear Member

    Hey, Will,

    Sometimes I think I am the only person in the world who remembers the Jack Armstrong/Wheaties card models.

    Phil Koopman Sr. designed them, and his son, Phil Jr., has kept them alive and gliding and on the web!


    Now, as to which is better, plastic or paper.

    It all depends. With aftermarket cast resin and photoetched brass parts and commercial clear plastic canopies, there is absolutely no comparison for detail --- plastic wins hands-down. When it comes to price, well, back in the old days, I bought a good 1/72 scale F4F-4 Wildcat for $7.50. Before I left the hobby shop I bought two photoetched brass detail sets at $12.00 each, a new canopy ($4.50), and at least five bottles of paint at $1.25 each. Oh, yeah, and another $7.50 for aftermarket decals to make it Butch O'Hare's F4F-3. Then lots of scratch work to convert an F4F-4 to its predecessor. It was a beauty and a contest winner, but that was before I retired! The prices now are beyond belief!

    The Fiddler's Green Wildcat costs $2.95. [Of course it doesn't have the bicycle chain landing gear up/down system or the instrument panel in the cockpit, but ----] And it is about a bunch easier to slap on a different paint job and new decals than to Photoshop a cardmodel!

    Both paper and plastic are exceptional media for model building. Why do some of us have to continually knock the medium that we have no experience with. There is one heck of a lot more to building a plastic kit than opening the box and gluing the parts together, just as there is a lot more to a card model than cutting and folding and pasting! I like BOTH media!

    OK, I've gotten my temper under control now. Just quit griping about how much better one medium is than the other!

  2. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    WHY WHY does this have to be about what is better? I just wanted to show them what could be done with paper. Its more like they dont know, not that they dont want to know... sheesh. I built my share of plastic now I like paper. I wash my hands of this thread. cripes. I will stick to saying nice build from here on, see ya all when I am back in the states.
  3. milenio3

    milenio3 Active Member

    I began building plastic models from 9-19. Then I found paper.

    As I stated before in this forum, here in Mexico scale paper models are a RARE thing. When I say "I build paper models", they think "Oh, origami". Then I show a smile in my face with revenge flavor when they see one of my models. Yeah, the sweet flavor of revenge at their "can you do that on paper??"

    Paper modeling... spreading the word.
  4. Teamds

    Teamds Member

    Convert from 1/700 Waterline ships (still have about 50 plastic & resin kits collecting dust in a closet), could not believe my first visual of Digital Navy's
    ships. Went nuts on JSC and have calmed down to wingy things.
  5. charliec

    charliec Active Member

    May I add a sociological observation based on my own observations (highly subjective and unreliable) ....

    It seems to me that the attitudes reported in the original post in this thread are those you find in a field of interest which has become stale and lacking novelty. It seems that an interest which lacks novelty becomes dominated by people who are "universal experts". Presumably this does something for the "experts" but is demeaning and off-putting to anyone trying to enter the field. I've found this both in modelling and in computer software (my day job). In the sotware field I've often thought of this as the triumph of selfish egoism over collegiate responsibilty (you help others just because they are doing similar things to you).

    Fortunately cardmodelling is full of novelty, new ideas and techniques and looks like staying that way for a long time. The main attraction (for me) of this forum is that the "universal experts" haven't had a chance to get established. The forum remains both welcoming to the starting modeller, a continual source of new ideas/techniques and a delight in seeing other people's creations.

    Personally I think we should just ignore the "experts" from other interests and let them become small fish in shrinking ponds.


  6. Hans Christian

    Hans Christian Active Member

    There's someone who posted a pic of a 1/35 card tank in the forums at one time (didn't know the name or the brand) and they always say that its too good to be paper, and also, they are muttering why plastic kits aren't as detailed as that tank kit, despite adding a ton of aftermarket parts + photoetched detail parts... (many [or should I say all] plastic kits need expensive AM parts to be realistic, or the modeler has to scratchbuild, compared to a card kit...)

    And still card models are discriminated by many pro modelers... even though many of us build in both mediums... And after building Dr. Z's WK & Ralph's SS1 in 4 months, I find that very insulting... :mad:
  7. Hans Christian

    Hans Christian Active Member

    I also got that one way back then, when I was researching about the ISS when I'm building my 1/300 model of it...

    But so far, I can't find a program at our place that would let me unfold vrml 3d models...

    that would be really nice...

    GEEDUBBYA Active Member

    Howdy Guys,

    Ok, well, recently as you all know, I tried inviting the members here to join and visit http://www.scale-models.co.uk/ which up until recently was devoted to plastic, wood and models of materials other than paper.
    I also made an invitation to the members there to join and visit here.
    Well, I think that the reception was good at both places, the members over there are mezmerized by some of the work done here and several have begun building card models....so "old dogs CAN learn newtricks" lol.
    The founder and moderators over there were real receptive to paper models and John, the founder of the site was quick to put in a card model section in their forums so we did get a "mention" in that forum.
    I really feel like, that if more members here were to help encourage the members there, we could have alot more of the members there trying cardmodels.....which was my hope when I started all of this. Currently, I am still off work with a neck injury and scissors have been somewhat painful for me to operate, especially for long periods, so, I have been building plastic kits. I will say that each hobby has its own special requirements and special techniques. And the flipside of this would be that each hobby has its own special flaws and faults. (Paper canopies look nothing like real glass, so thats one against paper, but if you mess up a plastic part, you cant print another, so thats one against plastic).
    However Like I have said before, they are both scale models and the two sites should be looked at as complimenting each other for that reason.
    Anyway, I know there are groups and forums out there who do talk down paper or card models, but I will say this, the bunch over at http://www.scale-models.co.uk/ have yet to say anything negative about our hobby here. In fact most have been impressed with the work done by the members here.
    But, like anything else, people dont accept what they dont understand, and its up to cardmodelers to show and help others learn about our hobby here....which was my intention when I tried to get the two sites memberships to have a look at the others hobby. Try to share your hobby, but dont judge others because they dont share in your enthusiasm for your hobby.....most times, they had no instruction in constructing a card model and when it didnt turn out right, they were left with a negative impression. So help people to learn and understand. Dont try to "change" their hobbies for them, but try instead to introduce them to "another hobby" they can enjoy "in addition to" the hobby they currently have when you meet them.

    Have a good day all,

    Greg aka GW
  9. hpept

    hpept Member

    I'm the n-th of the list to be converted from plastic to paper. I discovered this form of modeling rather recently (compared to my modeler history) in 2001. I found a freebie of a mig-15, downloaded it and.. zaappp!!! i was addicted. Since then i've built tens f paper models, very often as a relaxing kit between hard works in plastic models. I do like plastic models. I do like paper models equally. I still have in my parents house in Italy lots of kits waiting to be built, some very rare, some extremely rare. I hope someday i'll have the chance to build them at the level they deserve.
    In my opinion is not possible to compare the two kinds of modeling: each has it's own advantages and withdraws. What sometimes i miss in paper models is the painting phase: i love to to paint each tiny small insignificant particular as well as paint my plastic kits with the airbrush, doing freehand camouflages and very convincing weathering effects. What i don't miss is the sanding phase to remove all the excess putty to fill in the gaps between parts. Paper modeling is way too cleaner to build in home, with the peace of the family with no more complaints about smells, fumes, dust, dirt and so on.
    I definitely appreciate a good plastic kit AND a good paper kit. Any good modeler should appreciate all the other medium ( i can stay one hour observing amazed at all the scratchbuilt particulars in a wooden ship) even if they don't build with it.
  10. silverw

    silverw Member

    If it itches... Scratch it!!!

    Usually...when I post somethime... the thread ends, so, I thought I would post here!!

    I like my "haggis" with nothing on it...maybe at little salt and pepper!... and I like my hot dogs with cheese and cranberries, but if you want to have mustard, ... that's OK wth me!! I have it that way too!! ... Sometimes!!

    ......... Bill
  11. Amazyah

    Amazyah Senior Member

    Bill has spoken...

    OK, Bill said something.
    This thread must end. Now!...


    Sometimes I feel the same way Bill. I will throw my opinion out and that's the end of the thread. Actually, I really do hope that that's what happens with this one, but I am sure it will not end here.

    Modeling is fun. I really enjoy it. Paper, plastic, buffalo dung. What difference does it make what you use as a medium as long as you are enjoying yourself and spending your spare time doing something you love to do?!? I see no point, other than wasting server space, for an argument or discussion over what medium is better.

    I myself enjoy paper modeling more than any other type of modeling, at this moment in my life. I may use some wire for railing or throw in a piece of balsa wood for support of a ship deck but if I feel a plate of spaghetti would really look great on my model...

    What's better? hmmm.... nothing is better than enjoying your hobby, no matter what it is. No medium is better than another. Modeling is fun and that's where this discussion should end.

    For those that want to debunk a specific medium, let them. Who cares! I'm too busy having fun building models. If someone does not like what I use to do it, they are the one with the problem, not me.

    I do need a better source for buffalo dung though. If anyone knows of one, please let me know. I am building a model of a gas station and I really could use some more.
    For now though, I am off to try this hot dog with cheese and cranberry sauce! mmmmm, sounds dee-lish-us!

    Thank you and happy modeling everyone!

  12. silverw

    silverw Member

    I'm having a really GOOD laugh , Russell.... You just made the whole thread worth something!!
  13. Amazyah

    Amazyah Senior Member

    I'm glad you enjoyed that Bill.
    It looks as though we were on the same page to begin with.

    That darn buffalo dung is hard to find though... although there seems to be plenty of bull sh** on this thread, it's hard to build a model out of it!


    Buffalo dung is easier to work with and the detailing is amazing!

  14. Texman

    Texman Guest

    Yeah, but I think your coloring is off, looks to light to me!

  15. sparrowhawk

    sparrowhawk Member

    Here is another former wanderer between the worlds:
    My father (an avid cardboard modeler himself) always encouraged me to get into cardboard and so I started out with some Schreiber kits in 1/50 (I am german) at the age of nine, having lots of fun with them. Problem was: In the 1970-ies and 80-ies the choice was very limited before all those polish cardboard kits got available. I have always liked the stubby CAC Boomerang and the only kit available was by Airfix, which got me into plastic. Now there are 2 old polish cardboard kits of this bird on my shelf waiting to be built. Things CAN improve sometimes.
    Later it was the problem of those compound curves: Imagine a Jaguar D or XK-E in cardboard: Veeery difficult. So it was 95% plastic for some 25 years with some stick and tissue Peanut Scale aircraft strewn in.
    So, why did I return to cardboard?
    a) There is no better way to get an aircraft to know thoroughly than shaping a model of it with your own hands, getting the fuselage cross sections just right etc...
    b) No stench: White glue is water-based. No brushes to clean out with solvents, no minuscule Humbrol paint tins to get dry and unusable, no aggressive plastic glue to get high on. ;)
    c) Environment friendly: If a cardboard model is absolutely dissatisfying: Well, I got a nice oven in my room to get rid of it.

    What I prefer on plastic models: You can customize your model very easily by applying a different paint scheme. I got a whole flight of X-Wings from the same kit, all in different markings and states of neglect. Although with that nice canon scanner, my new epson stylus printer and some skills in image manipulation even this should not be too difficult. Hmmm...

    Greetings, Martin
  16. OylPslyk

    OylPslyk Aspiring Usurper

    hate to beat a dead dog, but my 2 cents...

    Its all about love of the game folks... and paper is the chessgame of models.

    it takes 3x the patience that those plastic models need, and the easy results from mass produced injection molded parts isnt just addictive its blinding to what goes into constructing anything, ANYONE can fit those parts together- hell I wasnt even in double digits yet when I built my first plastic model!!!

    so in conclusion, dont get mad get even, all u guys bomb that message board with pics of how realistic all our "lousy paper" models can be!!1:twisted: HeHe
  17. cygielski

    cygielski Member

    Sorry, but this is turning into a discussion about the relative advantages of apples over oranges. For chrissakes, people, it's all about what you like. No reason to stew about it, go and present your opinions where card models are being badmouthed, if it means that much to you. You're preaching to the choir here.
  18. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    Thats disgusting.

    Do you even KNOW whats in a hotdog?

  19. thewoodengraver

    thewoodengraver Active Member

    I would like to see some creative use of some spaghetti !

    Card/paper modeling has been around since...Paper! or Papyrus. That makes this craft at least 1000 years old. (historians please pipe in).
    see this page on Cardmodel History.
    Yet most people are completely unaware of the existence of cardmodels.
    Those others who do know but are skeptical have NOT done the research.

    Compound curves CAN be created with paper/cardstock. This takes LOTS of practice and LOTS of work.

    I urge you ALL to research cardmodels/ papermodels/ papercut and origami.
    This is not a "new" craft.
    Here comes my opinion...
    It is superior simply for this reason... I currently have 10,000 cardmodel kits in my possession...and I am low income.
    Need I say more?
  20. shoki2000

    shoki2000 Active Member

    Not to mention the minimal amount of space this huge number of kits needs. Try this with plastic, even 1:72 scale :grin:

    Many years ago I built plastic kits. Got bored since all I needed to do was to take them from the sprues, clean and built and paint.
    Then I saw my first paper model and was amazed that I can CREATE something 3D from a flat piece of paper.
    Never went back to plastic and never regret it. I'm not saying one is better from the other in general. It's just better for me.

    many a times I had people requesting to touch one of my models because they couldn't believe that it was actually made from paper. just yesterday I was showing a friend work-in-progress model to ilustrate (and prove once again) that you can use something so flimsy as paer to cretae fairly sturdy structure.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page