Why card models are always underestimated?

Discussion in 'Zealot Archives' started by Hans Christian, Aug 19, 2006.

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  1. Hans Christian

    Hans Christian Active Member

    this came from a post in the FineScale Modeler forums from a member that's giving "someone" an advice about where to get a wright flyer (that "someone" was considering the FG model as a plastic template)...

    --- I'm not fond of them myself. Paper doesn't hold curves particularly well, and I generally don't see paper models as very convincing no matter how well they're built. There's also another issue of print registration. Just as decals in a plastic kit that are out of register are a nightmare, the entire color areas on the paper you cut the components out of on a paper model being out of register is even worse as there's really nothing you can do about it. I'd say keep looking for a non paper kit of the Wright flyer, you may have to look to more obscure vacuum form or resin kits, but I'm sure a 1/72 of it is out there in something better than paper. Additionally, if you think cleaning dust off plastic models is a chore from Hell, don't get into paper models, they're 10 times worse to clean.

    and this is the reply of that "someone" I'm talking about...

    --- I see your point. I don't think decals would be a problem in the case of the Wright Flyer but your other points are valid. Thank you.
    (Two wrongs don't make a right but two wrights make an airplane!)

    These came from the paper tank kits in the same forums... (beware my armor brothers, their comments are... :mad: )

    --- Definitely not anywhere in the territory of actual plastic kits, but as far as an evening of amusement goes, it beats TV!

    --- I haven't built a paper tank, but I have built a paper model (1/144 scale I think) of Shakespeare's Theater for a school project. Didn't like paper. Must remind myself to stick with plastic, always! Off course the paper is made of, well paper which burns better! Oh, I mean I will "throw away" the gastly thing when it's turned in. (apparently, the member who posted this is known by the forum name of "ArmorMaster... :mad: )

    Obviously, many people really have that discrimination factor when it comes to card models...

    And as a card & a plastic scale modeler, that makes me really MAD!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

    And for that, I'm now planning my next big card model project: a 1/200 scale International Space Station in the original planned configuration (complete with the cancelled modules & the X-38 CRV), with many of the modules will be scratchbuild from the free NASA plans (& detail drawings from the NASA spacelink site) and the remainding will come from the marscenter kits, including the space shuttles.

    And this time, I'll send a how-to build article for this to the magazine. And I hope their jaws would drop the moment they open the page.

    P.S. for this, I kinda need someone who will design the X-38... :wink:
  2. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    I highly suggest any of our members that have built that or a similar plane go post a pic :) link to the thread would be helpful too ;) pics speak louder than words. for that matter didnt someone post a pic a while back of a tank they did like 20 years ago? Maybe that will help convince armor master
  3. thewoodengraver

    thewoodengraver Active Member

    I like to see it this way...

    Cardmodeling is not easy. Anyone I know who complains about cardmodels scrapped every model they tried, then gave up. Trying to "reform" someone's opinion is like beating a dead horse. Unless you can convince them to keep trying.

    We ALL know how awesome Cardmodeling is and every time I hear complaints about cardmodels I JUMP FOR JOY that I found something this special!!:grin:

    We are indeed, a rare breed!
  4. NYC Irish

    NYC Irish Member

    Hey gang

    Well its obvious Im partial to paper but plastic models are not keeping up with technology.

    My wife picked up the new airfix 1:72 Concorde last year for me and I was disgusted by the quality...Seam lines I could have fit Ralph Currells Concorde through, too many (and incorrectly shaped) windows and I didnt even give it the time to get to the incorrect shape and fitting Decals. Good luck Airfix...you will need it

    Im starved for interesting publications over here in Ireland but the Tamiya Modelers magazine pops into a particular shop everyonce in a while so If its half dedcent I pick it up.

    2 months ago an article was done in the magazine about a new resin release of an Oregon Class, or possibly the Oregon itself. The author dropped praise upon praise on the kit but it was an awfull hunk...Blister bubbles, air bubbles not sanded, Ralings thats were painfully out of scale and as flat and unappealing to the eyes as the chucnks missing from poor moulding, A friend commented that it looks like something you would find in a pet store to keep your fish amused in their tank. I looked at that then the DN Yamato and Arizona I have and sighed in relief

    Everyone has their opinions and fine for them

    Im just so glad I found you guys

    John John
  5. Amazyah

    Amazyah Senior Member

    Amen! Phil, you hit the nail on the head!

    Plastic, while I am sure it has it's points, is nothing compared to paper.
    Plastic kits have there parts preformed and they are just glued together while we have to shape our parts to fit, then glue them.
    Paper requires much more finesse and work.
    In my book, plastic is the lazy mans model.
  6. Reading this, I was just wondering: how many of us cardmodel addicts built plastic kits before switching over to (and staying with!) cardmodels? I did. How about you guys?

  7. Amazyah

    Amazyah Senior Member

    I am a convert myself, Sheila!
    I grew up with plastic and have only recently discovered the world of paper models but I believe that paper has the advantage by a long shot.

  8. cygielski

    cygielski Member

    Now let's not get bent out of shape. It all comes down to what you like - I've seen both plastic and paper models that have my jaw drop. No matter how much we strain, plastic is better at modeling compound curves. Card allows us to build bigger, more detailed models than are available in plastic, at a fraction of the cost. I expect the two examples given above, the Wright Flyer and armor, are much better suited to card than to plastic, though the amount of work involved might scare off these guys - I've seen armor models with more parts in one track alone than a full-blown plastic model, including the photo etch parts. How many parts in an average plastic ship model? Paper models go up into the thousands. Whole different ball game.

    Personally, despite their limitations, I like card models better, but every time I try to put a rational argument behind it, I quiclkly find counter-arguments and counter-examples, so it's not really worth it. So in the end it comes out that I simply like card models better. Period. (that's "Full stop." for you Commonwealth types ;-) )

    PS. Answering Sheila: As a kid I built plastic models, but having been born in Poland, I was aware of card models very early on. It took me a while before I actually built one, however.
  9. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    I like plastic and card as well but only card can give whatever detail you desire at the cheapest price.

    Plastic seems to involve way too much toxic components when kitbashing. Glues, Paints, Aerosols, Cleaners.
  10. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    I actually started out doing both about the same time. I think it was a Jack Armstrong Wheaties pennyweight flyer that I found in a hobby shop that got me into card modeling. I can never remember for sure but I might have built my own(a little tube of paper with a cone on it and triangle for the wings and tail) before that or it might have gotten me started. Then for a long while(ages 6-16) I did more plastic kits than I designed paper and now I've gotten away from plastic altogether.
  11. 46rob

    46rob Member

    Over the years, I've built models from all sorts of materials: Solid scale, balsa, stick and tissue, metal, resin--you name it--at one time or another I've tried them all. In the garage are four cartons full of plastic kits, left over when a freind's hobby shop tanked. Every now and then I give one or two away to co-workers at the museum, as most of these are older oop kits. I've seen both plastic and card models that were incredible, as well as some mixed media built by the proffessional modelers here at the museum 5that just stop you cold. IMHO, it's not the medium, so much as the skill and dedication of the modelers, look at the Hellcat that was just done on these pages, or the Val currently being done. This is world class work. I've also seen the mess I've made, trying to do a ship....of course I can mess up plastic or wood equally well. Metal seems easier....its strength and hardness force me to work slowly. The marking and decal issues, though are something I've beeen contemplating a bit. numbers on a conical section, for example should have the vertical elelments slightly curved, corresponding to the curvature of that part of the segment, for example. I noticed it looking at the skin removed from a plane a few weeks ago--the numerals were curved rather than straight....yet they appear straight when the panel was curved to the fuselage. I'm going to have to attempt to work this into my future designs.
  12. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    well still, I think it would be a good showing to shoz them the final product of the paper wright flyer if anyone has done it :D
  13. Darwin

    Darwin Member

    I am old enough that I actually built wood and paper models before getting into plastic. One of my very favorites was a "working" model of a Studebaker dealership, complete with working elevator, and a bunch of "old-timer" Studebaker cars. I must have driven my dad nuts by insisting he stop and take a test drive (the only way to get the kit...and free at that) everytime we were within a country mile of a dealership. I was almost into my teens before plastic kits were cheap enough to have other than as a special Christmas treat, along with an apple and an orange in the Christmas stocking. I still work with both, and have more than a lifetime's worth of kits of all media stashed away in the shed awaiting my retirement.
  14. clarklfarris

    clarklfarris Member

    Another convert

    I am also a convert ot paper models. I grew tired of the increasingly expensive plastic kits. I like the fact that the models (for the most part) are free and you don't have to wait to find a particular subject. You can design and build it yourself much easier than doing the same in plastic, resin or the other traditional modeling media.
  15. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    I'm just a 'modelmaker' . I'll use whatever materials take my fancy at the time, and suit the job in hand. I usually shy away from these 'which is better, butter or turpentine?' discussions, because in the end it is down to the skill and dedication of the modelmaker. I've seen amazing things carved out of ivory, wonderful models from beaten cola cans, and brilliant results from paper, card, plastic, resin, etchings, white metal, paint, decals, twigs, gravel, brass, rubber, bamboo; even ice and sand!!

    Equally, I've seen models which cost their makers a small fortune in materials, tools, research, and I've thought quietly to myself, 'Ah well, at least your spending that much makes the hobby more affordable for the rest of us!'

    Paper and card are computer-friendly, cheap, simple tools required, no nasty smells or noise. It is rubbish at forming compound curves, flimsy and boring to have to cut out thousands (I'm thinking tank tracks here) of identical weeny bits. You pays your money, and you takes your choice.

    In the words of Old Bill, if you know a better hole, go to it!!

    Tim Perry (wunwinglow)
  16. sdk2knbk

    sdk2knbk Guest

    Plastic models? Too expensive. Paint and glue? Getting more expensive. A convienient place to work on plastic? Not at the moment! Paper? I can work on them almost anywhere. Detail issues with paper? So what! They can be as detailed or as simple as you care to make them. Those gentlemen quoted at the beginning of this thread are probably the snobby, rivet-counting types who are never satisfied anyway.

    I'll work on plastic again someday when circumstances permit, but I'll never stop building paper models. There are too many models that I could never afford (or even find) in plastic. When's the last time you saw a free plastic model?

    Scott K.
  17. cardmodeler

    cardmodeler Member

    I built plastic models for a while. Not having a permanent modeling area in which to build, I was forced to drag out all of my modelling paraphernalia each time and finally grew weary of that. Also, spray- and airbrush-painting was a hassle to me. Card modelling (at least the way I build) requires a lot less "stuff" and I can be set up and working in no time. Also, subjects for card modelling are so much more varied than in plastic. I've been to plastic model shows and seen some amazing models, but I have also been just as impressed with the paper models I have seen here and other places on the internet. If you like to model plastic, fine; if you like paper, great; if you like building planes out of soft drink cans, okay. Just don't poo-poo the other guy's(gal's) hobby because to them it's just as enjoyable as yours is to you.

    As Elvis would say, "Thank ya, thank ya very much."
  18. keith

    keith Member

    Modelling is modelling, it doesn't matter what materials you use.
    As for paper, it's the best and cheapest way to get into 'modelling'.

    X-38, there is a 3D model of this in the NASA vrml package you can download, might be a good start at least.
    click the red 'download vrml' button
  19. popala

    popala Member

    A few months back someone on this forum said that plastic model vs paper model is like a photograph compared to a painting. They are both art but one requires a bit more finesse, imagination and practice. I don't think that they should be ever compared in a matter of one being better than the other - just different.
  20. cdcoyle

    cdcoyle Member

    I got into paper in a round-about way. I built plastic kits as a kid, took a long, long hiatus from modeling, and then got into the hobby again with wooden ship kits. I didn't even know paper models existed until I saw the work of David Okamura at model club meetings. I was fascinated by both the detail and the range of subjects available, especially pre-dreadnoughts. Now I build both wood and paper kits (you might call it wood only, since paper is wood fiber!). I don't see myself ever getting into plastic again -- way too expensive these days.
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