When you should be credited in a model and when not, a discussion.

Discussion in 'Off Topic Lounge' started by zathros, Mar 3, 2015.

  1. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    I am of the opinion that if you clearly stated that you want credit on a model being built, you should say so before you draw a line. This should not be taken for granted. I have helped many people and have received no credit, of course, the big bold letters I use saying, "Do not credit me in this model", might have something to do with it.

    What is you opinion?
    Please offer your opinions as opinions, not absolutes. Let's be nice and creative. Maybe even making up a standard agreement form.

    For instance, if you make the engines, but no longer want them distributed, they should be able to removed from the models, and someone elses be used. This can open many doors, close others. It would be cool to see a fleet of spacecraft with interchangeable parts. Not like the swap pods, and come up with a billion variations of Star Trek ships, but a new Universe, like the "Zealot Continuum". :)***

    ***fun can be made of that now.
  2. spaceagent-9

    spaceagent-9 Right Hand Man and Confidant

    I fall back on my original understanding of paper models from 2006, when I first went to a site. its a gift. do whatever you want to it. Don't remove the author's name and replace it with yours or any logo for resale purposes and sell it. if you modify the entire model, give the original link to the original model with the author's name. what is frustrating for me is when a model ''dies'' and you can find the author anymore , to ask permission for hosting it. I have been back lashed for posting them just to keep the model alive, and also showing my mods for it, but if it gets the author or a host to contact me and then I can ask permission, it is worth the risk. in my opinion. there are parts of some star trek models that were mod'd very well, but I still like most of the original. so I use the new parts and build it. for my models that I author, for me, it is all well and good, as like I said, just don't remove my name and put something else there and sell it. its for free. if I want money for something I will sell it. as far as helping someone, I have just let them use what I made for them and let them go ahead and mention me or not, as far as posting them . I make very simple models that need a lot of work in most cases, but it really burned my mustard when I saw someone posting my stuff without mentioning me. I got over it, but I see the artistic rights being trampled as a valid viewpoint. so don't offer it for free if you don't want to be overlooked or pirated. like Zathros said, put in big letters- HEY I DID THIS, or that you don't want credit.
  3. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    I have a problem with models of the same subject. There are only so may ways of making certain models. It is inevitable that a model will look like another, though they were created by people. Of course this is mainly because these people are making models of the works of whole groups of peoples. Therefore, two people making an F018 model have no right to complain about a model, as neither were the designer, they were making a hand held representation of the work. The more accurate the model, if in the same scale, then the parts can become interchangeable, and you do find this in Halinski and some other companies.
  4. Netizenzero

    Netizenzero New Member

    This has always been a touchy subject in the creative world, and the problem spreads not just to paper and plastic models but to all types of design.

    The argument from the peanut gallery has always been that models, even though they are published, aren't really "published" works, because they are physical. Currently however, all original works fall under that control of the original creator.

    Of course I am of the belief that any original work should remain under the control of the original creator, and that original creator should have final say in what happens with that work, and that is what current copyright allows (mostly).

    As for agreeing on how to establish ownership and control, the creative commons has done a pretty good job of establishing a standard for this, that also takes into account derivitive works (re: the alternate nacelles for that model). I'd encourage everyone to take a peak at what they have laid out here: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/

    Sorry for getting all super serious, but having worked for a book distributor in the past, I had to research this stuff a lot, and developed a pretty strong opinion on it.
  5. legal01

    legal01 Member

    I feel that the original designer should always be credited regardless of how many changes you make to the design. I have in the past completely converted jpegs to vector but would never claim to be the designer, that's why anything I though reflects only my Tinkered With stamp, I only tinker and do not design. In addition, anyone who contributes to a design is always mentioned in the final product regardless of whether they want to or not, it is only fair that once someone takes the effort to help improve a design that their contribution be recognised.
  6. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    I was hoping so much that you would enter this conversation. I agree wi8th that point, unless the contribution was inconsequential. For instance, you desperately need to find out how to make a 5' foot radius on a part 1/2" (.500") " wide, and your cutter, the biggest you have, is 4" wide shell mill. How do you do this?

    sin(tilt) = d/2R, where "d" is the diameter of the cutter, and "R" is the radius desired on the piece to be machined. Make sure the cutter's diameter is at least 1/2 the diameter of the part to be machined

    sin(how much you tilt head) Convert feet to inches, so you have 2 x 60"(Radius)=120" " diameter


    4"/120"=.0333 (forever, four places is enough), look up on SIN chart below, works out to about 19.5 degrees til on the head, closer to 19 degrees, you can always file more off.

    I help people a lot with this stuff. I don' think they get it a lot of the times, so I end up making the part. I never ask for credit. I don't think any is due, we should lift each other up. My point is if you are the majority designer/fabricator/interpreter of the models, because face it, most are derivative work, their name on the .pdf should be all that is needed for you to decide to load that model to a forum. They got their credit. I honestly think if someone is going to help you with a model, you liability to them ends at "Thanks, for helping me'. If anyone elses wanted more from me than that, I would not help them, nor would I ask for it. In actuality, I do not ask for help on these things I try to give by keeping everyone here Happy. That was my 2 cents worth.


    Trig.jpg I would like to hear what you, Legal01 and others have to say. Thanks! :)
  7. legal01

    legal01 Member

    I agree, simple advice does not need to be credited on the design directly but where another person contributes their own design for a part to form part of the whole of the design then its only fair they receive recognition for that contribution.
  8. Netizenzero

    Netizenzero New Member

    Okay, am I misunderstanding? Are we talking about helping with builds and not specifically the publishing of models?
  9. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    I think both. They are related. :)
  10. Netizenzero

    Netizenzero New Member

    Okay. When it comes to the publishing aspect of models, I think the Creative Commons Licenses are great for this. When it comes to helping with a build on a model, or designing a part for a model, I'm on board with what legal01 is saying. Significant contribution deserves recognition, but for simple advice, I think it can be optional. Of course, if someone making a significant contribution asks that no recognition be made, I believe that those wishes should be honoured as well.
  11. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    I always ask that "I not be mentioned, though sometimes people wonder what I know and why? Most of my life I was a machinist, Tool and Dye maker, and programmed CNC machines. I also had an electronics repair shop, I am a certified electronic technician, so I am used to doing the part of something, and gaining personal satisfaction from my small contribution.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
    Revell-Fan likes this.
  12. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator

    @zathros : Let's admit it - you are Bruce Wayne in real life! :)
  13. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    You embarrass me! :)
    Revell-Fan likes this.
  14. micahrogers

    micahrogers Active Member

    I'm not saying Z is Batman... I'm just sayin no on e has ever seen both of them in the same room before....
    Revell-Fan likes this.
  15. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    I dated a GIRL named Robin once. Dumped her because of that series. "Oh, so you're dating Robin?!?"
  16. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator

    Oh no! That's just like Neelix telling that joke to Seven of Nine about a marooned guy who saved himself from starving by eating "the Sundaes (spelled: "Sundays") of his calendar"... :)

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