U-Don's Lunar Module - Cardstock choice? Foil?

Discussion in 'Space & Aeronautics' started by rlwhitt, Oct 2, 2006.

  1. rlwhitt

    rlwhitt Active Member

    Hi all,

    For any one here who has built/is building U-Don's LEM. Is there advantage to using a heavier stock for some of the thin strut pieces and other fiddly bits, or would it make them too thick? I'm thinking thicker stock would be good for the structural, flat parts of the body, and maybe thinner stuff for the rolled parts. What weights have you folks used? Is there anything in the Japanese parts of the printing that give recommendations?

    Also, has anyone tried covering the "foil" areas with real gold colored foil - either on this model or on others? If so, how does that work out, and where did you get it?

    Thanks for any recommendations for me on this next challenge!

  2. dardard

    dardard Member

    Hi rlwhitt,

    Personnaly, I used 120gr paper for this model, but for the rolled parts, it is easier to have it printed on 80gr, but it works for me with the 120gr.

    I give you a trick for gold foil, wait until Xmas and grab the golden foil of the chocolates, it works perfectly. For the chocolate, it's up to you, eat it or let the others do, depend on your diet results.

    This gold foil has a nice ruffled aspect such as all thermal protection for space vehicles, it is easy to cut( because very thin), the only problem is to find the good glue for it.
    Do not try to flatten it too much or it will loose its aspect.

    Make some tryings and you will find it.

    Hope I this will help you.

  3. rlwhitt

    rlwhitt Active Member

    OK, I'm trying to understand the relationship between the commonly stated gr weights vs. the lbs I know about. Any idea what the equivilent lbs for 80gr & 120gr?


  4. davelant

    davelant Member

  5. rlwhitt

    rlwhitt Active Member


    I've seen this page, and taking 80gr and 120gr and trying to look up equivalents, starts my confusion - namely which column to look in. I've got 2 papers here right now, one says 110 lb Index and the other is 67 lb Bristol Cover. Assuming I'm using the right columns, that would seem to equate to ~180 gr and 199 gr respectively, but that does not make much sense as one seems significantly heavier than the other. And it would seem to make both quite a bit heavier than dardard's quoted 80 & 120 gr papers. So I must be using the table incorrectly!

  6. rlwhitt

    rlwhitt Active Member

  7. dardard

    dardard Member

    For the glue, I used universal gel glue from "scotch" brand, it works with the golden foils, but not with aluminium. It is not the best but the foil remains with the paper if you don't manipulate the model too much.
    You can try with cianoacrylate but it is not easy with paper.
    I have heard about special glues for plastic modelers but I do not remender the brand maybe Alcad or something like that

    Here is a look of the rufled aspect I was speaking about


    Attached Files:

  8. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Just a thought.................. since you are trying to glue two different media types together.......... what about the old fashioned rubber contact cement.

    coat the foil and coat the paper........... let dry and stick together........ just remember you only has one shot to get it right.

  9. rlwhitt

    rlwhitt Active Member

    Very nice dadard. A question of strategy - are you trying to foil the parts before assembly, or trying to wait until you have some sort of sensible assembled area ready and then applying foil? Seems to me like the later might be best on some places on this one, especially the spots that span joints between parts. I would think the rolled parts need the foil before assemly starts blocking things. I noticed also on some of these parts there seems to be both gold and silver (aluminum?) colored foils. That'll certainly make things tricky!

    Maybe the best idea at this stage is to build it without and aquire the experience of how the bits fit together first.

  10. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    rlwhitt.......... I hope I can help and just dosn't confuse you more........

    Regular Old Typing paper is the same as 20# Bond 50# Offset

    use that a standard.

    In the US we normaly have a coice of 20# 24# 28# these are BOND..... these correspond to 50# 60# 70# OFFSET.

    110# Card Stock is 110# Offset and the same as 90# Index.

    It's very confusing, anyway it all boils down to what the ORIGINAL size the paper was created........... the best way to elliminate the confusion is get a good digital caliper and do the millimeters.

  11. dardard

    dardard Member

    I made the assembly normally and then I cover with foil.
    Because the glue is not perfect for this use, you must not manipulate the subassembly after you foiled it.
    I have made almost all the ascent stage before foiling it.
    I made all the descent stage (whithout the railings and stairs) and I foiled.
    Actually, I have not found aluminium that have the same behaviour as the golden one, so I have not foiled the underside yet.

    For the foiling, I cut out a piece of foil at the shape of the area to cover.
    I put the glue on it, also a bit on the area and put together.
    You must take care at the border area that absolutely must be glued. But not to much glue or not enough, that is the great dilemma to deal with.

  12. I've been down this road recently myself and it is a head-scratcher. What I found is that if I go to Staples, I can buy "67lb Coverstock" and I can buy "110lb cardstock". The differences between them are slight. My "67lb Coverstock" is .0083" thick. My 110lb cardstock is .009" thick.

    If you look at that chart, you'll see that there is a column that states the thickness of these materials. I really think that's far more important than how much it weighs. What's really confusing in practice is that the various types of stock don't have consistent names.

    Cheers --- Larry
  13. rlwhitt

    rlwhitt Active Member

    Yes Larry, it sure is confusing. Right now in the beginning of my foray into this hobby, it's really not critical. If I miss by a little - no biggy. At some point I'm probably going to want to get a better handle on all this and tweak things here and there for better results. Guess I'm eventually going to be wanting a digital caliper as Bowdenja has mentioned. Ah, there goes the simple, cheap tools argument. I guess every hobby ends up the same, in the end... ;)

  14. You'll find that while everyone talks in terms of weight, everybody is more concerned with thickness than anything else. The reason is simple. The companies selling the stuff think in terms of weight but model design must accommodate thickness. If you haven't bumped into it yet, you'll find that most formers are supposed to be 0.5mm to 1.0mm thick. Now, you can get 1mm by taking three sheets 100lb Bristol board (much thicker than 100lb index stock) and laminating your printed formers to it, or you can stack up a whole bunch of sheets of standard stock. Either way, it's thickness that you're dealing with, not weight.

    I can't imagine doing any modeling without calipers. I have four sets of them scattered around my shop. But you could get along without them by simply going to Staples and buying some 100lb (.009") and 65-67lb (.008") stock and ignore any variance in those thicknesses. As you suggest, I don't think it matters much.

    Cheers --- Larry

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