Trying again and still lost

Discussion in 'Track Planning' started by Jim Spaulding, May 13, 2004.

  1. Jim Spaulding

    Jim Spaulding New Member

    Glad to have The Gauge back. Sure missed it since I was getting tons of help.

    Last Post by Cid:
    Hi Jim,
    I know you don't want to have a turntable. I don't know if changing the direction
    of a locomotive is going to be critical to your operation, but, if so, you need a wye
    or a reverse loop. Crossing over anywhere on the peninsula would give you the
    reverse loop, maybe just extending the northern-most spur in the industrial
    district. Other than that you have to use the Great Hand From Space.
    "It does not matter how slowly you go as long as you do not stop."


    Okay, I placed a reverse loop inside the District. Did some coloring. Still kicking around ideas near the Refinery and lower level. Right hand side above the tunnel will be a farm. I liked that idea.

    Going camping for a few days. Back on Monday.

    Thanks for everyones help prior to the crash.


    Attached Files:

  2. UPJunkie

    UPJunkie Member

    WOW :eek:

    How big is this layout and what scale i like it the way you have it if it was mine i would go on and get staqrted on it
  3. Jim Spaulding

    Jim Spaulding New Member

    Thank you very much. The scale is HO and it will be located in the garage which is 23' X 23'.

    This is a modified version of a plan that Cid came up with. I took many of the suggestions from other members and this is what you see now. I still have lots of work to do during this planning stage so I'll keep plugging away at it till it seems right.

  4. rsn48

    rsn48 Member

    With your reversing loop, you want the reversing section to be a tad longer than your longest train. The grey area in the reversing loop is where I would have the auto-reverser, but it doesn' look long enough when I compare it to the lengths of your yard.
  5. UPJunkie

    UPJunkie Member

    well i took the pic and did some stuff to it its something that if it was mine i would do

    Attached Files:

  6. Jim Spaulding

    Jim Spaulding New Member

    Hi Rick,

    Thanks for the suggestion. Why does one want the reversing loop as long as the longest train? I would have thought that once the loco’s have made it passed that the polarity would change and the train would continue on its way. Must be something I’m missing as usual. If it should be that long I’ll have to move it to somewhere else due to the lack of space in the District.


    Looks good and I even like the idea. Now were you planning on having the line with the 6” rise enter a tunnel or just out in the open? Also just so I get it correct. The river does or does not hit the edge of the bench work as it runs parallel along the lower leg? Also looks like you planned a tunnel on the lower leg? It’s hard to tell with my eyesight. Age thing.

  7. UPJunkie

    UPJunkie Member

    Here is a better veiw of what i came up with. Your plan is like my layout that i am building but i am going to have about 3-4 trains running
    3 main line
    1 switching ( around the town )

    in the top left where it is yellow, is this going to be removable?

    Attached Files:

  8. Jim Spaulding

    Jim Spaulding New Member

    Thank you very much for the clarification. Eyes just aren’t what they used to be.

    Upper left is planned to be a hinged lift-up section. This will be the main entry just in front of the side door to the garage. Just to the right of the door sits my water heater for the apartment above the garage so I chose the angled cut to leave room for both door and heater.

    I also wish to run 3 trains at once. One dedicated to the Industrial District and two mainlines. The District has a small staging yard to hold cars while switching which is located in the lower section of the town area above the District. This would allow for trains to drop off and pick up sets going to and from and then continuing on their way. On paper it seems to work like it always does.

    In the idea that Cid had on the right hand side he had a curve south of the farm area. I really liked that idea. I also like the way you have the river running with the track and on two sections. I’m now trying to draw it so I can have both. (don’t we always want it all!). I would assume that with a canyon I would be able to have the river come out of the right hand side and flow to the lower section. Happens in nature (I think).

    Remember: If is half of Life!
  9. 60103

    60103 Pooh Bah

    The reversing loop module changes over when your locos come in and create the briefest short. At the exit, there is another short and the module flips again.
    If you have metal wheels on your cars back in the train and they are entering the reverse section after the locos have left (or worse, as they are leaving), they will flip the module to the entering mode, and then exit mode, and ...
  10. Jim Spaulding

    Jim Spaulding New Member

    Good thought David. Thanks for the info.

    I never thought that the metal wheels would create the short. Okay, I need to remove the very short reversing section. I might just have to do without unless I can figure another location for a longer one.

  11. Jim Spaulding

    Jim Spaulding New Member

    This new layout will be using DCC by Lenz. Should I have a dedicated programming track or can I take a line from the staging tracks, insulate both rails and have a track in that location? Not sure how most people do this.

  12. cidchase

    cidchase Active Member

    Hi Jim,
    Why don't you post that last Q. in the DCC forum?

    Reverse loop: If you want to turn a loco without pickin' it up, you need
    either a wye or a reversing section. You do not necessarily have to use the
    reversing section to turn the whole train.

    Since you are going to be switching in the industrial area, and running
    two main lines, you may want a bypass at the throat of the peninsula. This
    is also a good place for the wye. :thumb:

    I'm not sure about your planned operations, but an eastbound loco cannot
    back cars into the refinery, and a westbound train cannot back cars into
    the Intermodal yard. :eek:

    Regarding a reversing section, it can also be switched manually. Certainly
    not as neat, but so far that's how mine will be. :oops: :oops:

    My thoughts on the curved out section on the east side were that you
    would be running around the side of the mountain, with a tunnel below
    for the other track. Curving out also allows room for access to the tunnel
    from below should it become necessary!!!!

    What a bunch of details, huh?? I'm sure the planning will be worth it
    in the long run. :) :) :) Of course, it's going to keep changing as you go,
    I don't think there's any way around that!! :D :D :D :D
  13. Jim Spaulding

    Jim Spaulding New Member

    Thanks for the input Cid,

    I’m thinking about leaving the reversing loop in the Industrial District in place and allow the switcher there to be able to use it. Not for mainline use.

    I never thought about the eastbound traffic not being able to use the Intermodal Yard. I might move that up to where the staging yard is, place a wye and the bypass where it and the refinery is now. I do like the idea of the bypass for through traffic.

    I’ll keep the Town and District pretty much the same unless something else comes to light. I like the Farm area and Mountain on the left side so I’ll keep that in place.

    Track planning has many frustrations: I want it all and I want it to fit inside a shoebox so to speak. Not enough room as always. I am having fun planning this but never thought it would be so tough.

    Having built the Granite Gorge plan, someone else did most of the planning work for me other than the few mods I placed.

    Back to the drawing board.

  14. Jim Spaulding

    Jim Spaulding New Member

    Another question if I may. One of many more to come.

    Would a run around track work for allowing the opposite direction traffic to use the intermodel yard? In my mind this would work (I think).

  15. cidchase

    cidchase Active Member

    Good idea, Jim, I think yes. The cars would then be pushed into the yard
    and /or pulled out from the front of the loco. :thumb: :thumb:
  16. Jim Spaulding

    Jim Spaulding New Member

    Thought that might work.

    Okay here is what I have so far. Not sure it’s a good design but I’ll let everyone tear it apart.

    Removed the Refinery, Re-did the Intermodel yard with a runaround track, Added a bypass so one would not have to enter the town or District. I kept they staging tracks where they were for now. Could move them to the lower section and use the upper section for something. Still kicking around tons of ideas. My imagination (what little I have) is dangerous.

    I would like to keep the farm area, (I like that idea). Might try to place the Refinery on the lower section more towards the left side where the bridges are now. Move the bridges to the right and from there, have the river carry over to the left side.

    Even thinking about having the river leave the layout and rejoin the layout on the left side. Just thinking again.


    Attached Files:

  17. Woodie

    Woodie Active Member

    Just looking at the interaction between the intermodal, and westbound staging.


    You take an intermodal freight "forward" into the intermodal area. The only way "out" is to reverse it onto the mainline, then forward again, interupting mainline traffic. Same with forward "arrivals" at the westboud staging. You gotta then, reverse out onto the mainline, again, interupting mainline traffic to cater for the reversing operation.

    Have you thought of a "transit" loop between the internodal area, and westbound staging? That way, you could have a "forward" arrival, at the intermodal, then reverse it along the "loop" to the westbound staging without interupting mainline traffic, and have it ready for a "forward" entry from the westbound staging, onto the mainline.

    (and vice versa, with both "reverse" arrivals at the intermodal, and westbound staging.)

    i.e. have 3 tracks across your "liftup section".

    For entry/exit to mainline from major ladder yards such as your staging, and intermodal, I always prefer to enter/exit without having a reversing operation interupting through traffic.

    Unles you're happy with the "five finger" reverse opertaion..... i.e. pick the loco up and hook it up to the other end of the cars!! :) :cool:
  18. Jim Spaulding

    Jim Spaulding New Member

    Hi Woodie,

    I like the idea of a “Transit” loop. Don’t know what it is though. I think I have the ability to widen the lift-out section by a few inches so adding a third track should not be a problem. I just don’t understand what this transit loop is or how one would work.

    If it’s a full return loop, the only place I can think of that it would fit would be say under the industrial district somehow.

    I was thinking of placing the staging yard under the lower section where I now have moved the Refinery. Would open up the upper section for additional modeling. I’m working on how to bring in the west bound staging up by the Intermodel yard.

    That’s where I’m at for now. Still plugging away at it. Lots of fun planning this plus lots of frustration on my part. I have that “I want it all” attitude.

  19. Woodie

    Woodie Active Member


    I just made that terminology up, for want of not knowing what else to call it.

    You can, currently, go from the intermodal yard, to the westbound staging yard direct, but only via your mainline. What I was suggesting is a "third" track linking the intermodal yard, and the westbound staging yard, so you can "transit" between the two, without fouling your mainline traffic.

    That would allow you to "forward" (arrival) into the intermodal, then "reverse" along the "transit" line and into the westbound staging, then "forward" (depart) out onto the mainline, thus eliminating any reversing operations two/from you mainline.

    Have I confuddle you?? :confused: :eek:

    Just suggesting this, as I have a bee in my bonnet about reversing operations to/from the mainline for arrival/departures from staging and yards. :rolleyes:
  20. Jim Spaulding

    Jim Spaulding New Member


    Yes, I believe you have confuddled me. (trying real hard to understand), Currently if I leave from the westbound yard and enter the Intermodel Yard using the run around track and then back in the cars I will be able to re-enter the westbound yard engine first. I would then be able to back out of the yard onto the mainline and take off heading east. Correct?

    I have taken a pencil to the plan and added an additional track from the Intermodel Yard to the Staging Yard and the same would happen just not using the mainline until ready to back out onto it for a trip around.

    Is that what you had in mind?

    Of course, this all could be a moot point if I were to have a lower staging yard on the south end of the layout. I think I would have to either remove the Intermodel Yard or move is somewhere else. Still kicking that idea around. Would be nice to have the northern section of the layout as another scenic area instead of just a visible staging yard.

    Well, off to work I go. Back on the layout later today.



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