Thieves Among Us (Please Read)

Discussion in 'Zealot Archives' started by exzealot, Jan 16, 2009.

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  1. exzealot

    exzealot Member

    Art Decko,

    I haven't posted in this thread for awhile, but I have been watching, reading, listening and thinking.

    There have been some excellent points that people have made here with regard to curbing this activity. The last point you made is an excellent idea. I agree with you that many people who download these models for free may not even realize they are available for purchase. Placing a note on the cover sheet of the model will capture some honest people who still prefer to "shave with the lights on". In the future, I am going to add a note so that people know where they can get a legitimate copy.

    When I first saw the firestorm created by this thread, I began regreting that I started it - I was obviously taken back by what happened; especially since it happened so quickly after the model was released. But after reading the postings, I have been encouraged by the passion and support for our hobby and its designers; both for those who do it for free, and those who get a little money in return for their efforts. As a result, I have decided that I am not going to let this illegal activity stop me from developing future subjects. The X-15 was my first effort, and it won't be the last.

    There has been some debate over the motives of the "free" designers versus the "pay" designers. Both are motivated by the passion they have for it. I can assure you that money cannot be the motivation here. There is no money "in it". I have been a professional CAD designer for over 20 years, and quite frankly, I don't need the money, or IRS problems for that matter. Once I discovered this great hobby, I realized that it was in its infancy. The cost of plastic has skyrocketed in recent years, and the global economy will start driving people to more affordable hobbies - and I am certain that if marketed and promoted effectively, paper modeling will be one of them; providing that designers are willing to take this to the next level, and buyers want to build their models.

    I am one of those designers who want to take this hobby to the next level - more subjects, more detail, better graphics, better assembly techniques, better fit/finish, etc. But it takes software, time, experience, and development to do this - and most of you understand that the investment is much greater than the return; even in the long run. But I love to design; it's what I do - that's my motivation.

    So for all of my friends and partners out there, THANK YOU! :thumb:

  2. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    Anytime Ken :) I personally have gotten some great insight from this thread and glad it came about. Art Decko created me a nice little anti piracy logo for my designers to use (if desired on their behalf) and many of the designers that sell with me already put my logo on the cover sheet - this helps show where they can get it. I am looking to introduce some of the other ideas as well.
  3. Art Decko

    Art Decko Member

    That alone made every comment by every poster in this thread worth it! :thumb: :thumb:

    That is one of the most exciting things about this hobby! There aren't many standards or conventions yet, so everyone involved in card modeling now is shaping its future.

    Glad you are planning to continue being a part of that process! :)
  4. Louis R

    Louis R Member

    Hello Ken
    I am sorry that this has happened to you. As you know I am a owner of this fantastic model you created and have already started to built it. I also have a huge collection, both bought and freebies from varies designers. I have been collecting paper models for the past 8 years YET I have only built about 12 of them in all this time. Why, because some models just jump out and scream to be built. Yours was one of them. I beleive in the old 20-80 rule in life. I believe that you would be lucky that 20% of people who have a particular model will actually built it! I think this number drops further for pirates as really for them it's all about the action of illegal download and how much they can get for free. I imagine that a lot of stuff they download they will never build at all. I belong to at least 4 paper modelling groups and the regulars there and here are the ones who showcase their built models. These other theives, lurking in the background, would rarely showcase anything they build as they might be scared of being caught. Even if they build a model they would rarely get the accolades for their building effort as a person who legitimately buys a model as I really don't see strangers showcase any of their models and let alone make any post to these forums. As mentioned in numerous threads on pirated paper models alot of them are really poor quality. So the end result of may hours never produces the model of qualtiy made from the original article. I know this can not be the case on your model as it's a PDF file and it will always maintain its integrity. I really think alot of these thieves will never have the joy of building your model as someone who has paid hard earn cash, cheap as it was, for it. Yes you may have lost some money on it because of these theives but, as you said, you were never to going to fully recoup all your time, expertise and money putting this gread model together. You did it for the love of the hobby in a lot of ways. Plus you have earnt alot of respect in our community for your design skills. In future endeavours, place as much copyright notices on all the pages that you can fit. I even like the idea about placing a unique code to each PDf file so that you can identify the person(s) who are sharing the paper models. I know that this is a bi extra work but it might deter some of these jerks for doing this to you again and at best give you some satifaction in outing these people. Shame is a good form of punishment.

    I believe, that members here should purchase your model to show there support to you if they are interested in that genre of paper modelling.

    As a final note, I believe in KARMA. :)
  5. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    Update... someone sent me a link to one of the 'sites'. I quickly copy/pasted it to a translation site and got THIS message... LOLOLOLOLOOOOLOOLOOL!!!!

    I checked and some of EVERYONES stuff was linked from this site... well it was now it's all gone. Haha! Nice going guys.

    This is what I meant by hitting the host and not the offender. sign1
  6. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    We are doing our best :)
  7. Art Decko

    Art Decko Member

    Another way to fight piracy: sink pirate ships :thumb:
  8. ml5716111

    ml5716111 Guest

    Now, where is that mirror site...

    i got dirt on some of u and hmmmmmmmmmmmm wat if i post it on other forums?????YOU WANT THAT CRIS???????
  10. ml5716111

    ml5716111 Guest

    yes, that was expected. xxlordwildfire1, THIS IS MY BUSINESS - DISTRIBUTING PAPER MODELS. Can you explain me please, even in a pm, why I should tolerate such actions of piracy/people who steall money from me ( , while I am unemployeed these days?

    Moshe Lemer
  11. jagolden

    jagolden Guest

    I read that and a few other "complaints" on that site yesterday. They are hilarious entertainment.
    In an earlier post (same subject, different thread) I stated that I did not think there were enough people to really shut down or put a dent in 2 of the major pirate sites, but clearly I was wrong.
    Maybe the file hosting companies are much more nervous than say, eBay, and will take things down with less demand of documented ownership.
  12. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    It's sites owned by UCOZ that are primarily the holders of illegal materials.

    These idiots who have their little files stored on filesharing sites because they know that they are violating their ISP's usage agreement if they host them from home if it didn't cut into their bandwidth. The thing is ... they are violating the filesharing site's user agreement.

    The lame excuse that the files are available so that you can 'review' the model before you buy it is worst excuse ever. They are hosting Moshe's files. His are all digital. You download his work and your only incentive to buy anything from him would be guilt. Considering the fact that they already have ripped off pretty much everyone's work already ... there is no incentive to pay the man.

    The other sad part of all this is ... there are offerings of models that you can get for free and are still available. These are also 'pirated'. I don't understand why someone would go out of their way to pirate free models that were available in the first place.
  13. jagolden

    jagolden Guest


    Right, copyrighted is copyrighted.

    You can't win over their "justification. They rationalize it with the 'review' excuse and any other twisted route that can be taken. Some of the 'reason' is simply radical communistic thinking. Some actually say "viva la revolution". Yeah, I'm sure it will come someday, and they'll be on the receiving end of the purge.

    First time I came upon that site I went through every page. Daunting because it was around 300-something - took a week or so.

    There were a number of posts deriding their pirating, but the response posts were overwhelming, and again a logic you would never win.

    It's a little worrisome when they talk about a 'war' between sites. These are the clowns that put more work into hacking than building.

    They also seem to compare their site to Zealot. I always think of Zealot as educational, while their site is a place to fence 'hot' goods.
  14. mauther

    mauther Active Member

    On the same day I posted a free version that I made here (a simple castle) in Zealot someone put down in one of these pirate sites.
    I don`t care ,`cause it was a free model, very simple, made in a couple of hours, but what they did with X-15, by kenlwest was nothing nice. There is no excuse for this, and still make jokes with this .The man spent hours and hours of hard work and an idiot thinks it should be free, as if socialism had avenged in some part of the world. And they posted a picture of the killer mummy Fidel, like that dictator was a hero.
  15. Lotarius

    Lotarius Guest

    Gentlemen! Not all people in Eastern Europe have the opportunity to buy the model. How would you have tried, piracy has been and will be. Any attempt to protect your files, there are people who break this protection. The police method of forced removal of files from the Russian sites is meaningless, there is always an opportunity to circumvent your tricks. This war will end so that hackers from Russia and Ukraine to break your forum.

    I apologize for bad English.
  16. Lex

    Lex Dollmaker

    What shall I say... I can't say I have clean hands in fields other than cardmodels, so I wouldn't comment more on the subject. Good luck with the sales Ken and if this is a war as someone above declared, justice shall remain victorious.
  17. ml5716111

    ml5716111 Guest

    Lotarius, if you still read posts here, this is my answer:

    So, if someone wants something and can not pay for it, he steals it?
    Do you know what is the meaning of free lunch? There is no such a thing.

    We always pay for what we take, and the payment will come sooner or later, wether by our own free will, or by force (life will make us pay).

    Do yo or any other of your follows in Russia/Ukraine, ever heard about Sergei N. Lazarev (a parapsychologist), did any of you read his books.
    I strongly recommend that, before the next public sharing of unpaid files, you and your friends search for him on the internet.
    Please try these two links first:
    Read the post by chuchelo. And this link:

    If this does not help... well then I tried.

    And for the rest of the readers. Some of you may already know, what I am talking about, and for the rest, I apologize, for the unconventional approach to this issue.

  18. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    I think it's against the law to interfere with the operation of a website. The threat of interference is and should be taken just as seriously. Lotarius... you should not be making such threats.
  19. Lotarius

    Lotarius Guest


    In Eastern Europe, looking at this problem in another way. Piracy eradicated, but very slowly. Unpleasant when your model is stealing, but if it happened and correct it is not possible, save the person (face) does not sink to the level of barbarians. Give it a model for charity, to promote and kind gesture.
    Many of the modeller in Russia and Ukraine are using pirated files for review, am I doing this before buying the model. But there are people who have no opportunity to buy: the poor, children. Therefore, they use pirated copies, sometimes very bad quality. These copies are freely available, only bad people are trying to make money on this.

    Good modeller not be bad to use a copy if it can buy the original. This is my personal opinion.
    I pity those people who steal others' work.

    I apologize for bad English.
  20. Lotarius

    Lotarius Guest

    I do not make any threats :nope: , I assume that there may be such actions by the Russian users of Card Models sites :shock:
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