Thieves Among Us (Please Read)

Discussion in 'Zealot Archives' started by exzealot, Jan 16, 2009.

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  1. hi folks ..ive not posted on here for a while but have read this thread ..

    just to let you know that the "model" in question is still available to download on another forum ..if admin want to contact me i can pass on the link for it as it appearrs that one of the links from that forum was removed..but another is still there ....
  2. Nemesis7485

    Nemesis7485 Member

    This is something that is getting worse, not better. Not helped, I suspect, by the world's current financial woes.

    When I first launched my card model store a year ago, approximately 10% of visitors from search engines had used search phrases containing the word "download" and the name of kits that are only available in book form. Those kind of search phrases now account for around 30% of my search engine traffic.

    I'm not sure who I view in a worse light. Those who pirate the kits and distribute them or those who seek out and download them. I guess it's like drugs. There will always be those willing to push them as long as the demand for the supply is there. Unfortunately, the demand for pirated copies seems to be on the increase.
  3. Cybermac

    Cybermac Member



    For me looks like somebody is trying to kill designer's creativity!!!!!

  4. Werner Smuts

    Werner Smuts Member

    Hi Y'all

    Maybe I'm not at liberty to say "SO WHAT!!" (In the nicest way!) We are wasting our time and energy on things that could have been used more productively on say ……… designing and building. Infringements like this are the way of life and will never get resolved (sad to say). Maybe some securities might be put in place to deter the “infringer” but hey, for him / her there will always be some way to bypass whatever you put in place (Sorry designers). Reality shows that in our life time nothing can be done to stop them totally no matter what you do. Attitudes need changing!!! Until such time, were stuffed!!!
    I'm not a designer and yes I’m one of the people who do scan the site for free models (blow me). Why not, if I don't have to pay for something i won't let it pass, that is obvious a plus for most if not all of us part of this forum! Don’t tell me there is a person on this earth that won’t take something for free if so offered.
    I'm really sorry for you Ken! Indeed I am, but you’re not the first nor will be the last this happens to. I however count on guys like you who do design the most awesome models to keep us all occupied with what we love doing. I think this hobby is most cool just because you won’t see people going in a hobby shop, take a plastic model (for free) and start building or go in a RC model shop take a model and fly for free! It’s unheard of, you'll get arrested. But this is where our hobby differs. We can download (for free in most cases) build and showcase or in some cases even FLY them…. AWESOME!!
    I know that the designers go through a lot of time consuming research and designing to give us a product to be proud off, and I’m most thankful for that. Consider this….. Make your models available for free then all ranting and unhappiness will be at an end. Look what’s up for free at Claudio's site as an example.... There is a load of extremely good… no… awesome models up for download, and on top of that, for free. Don’t tell me that there hasn’t gone a lot of time consuming research into them as well.
    I think on top of all this sad happening, consider that you are also doing what you like. Allow us to be part of your creation and give you acknowledgement for an excellent job well done. For sure some are doing this as this is their only sort of income, but then you have to realize that you’re going to get the short end of the stick one day or another (come on, we live in reality here).
    Ask donations, why not, there will be people more than willing to pay “thank you” incentives. As an alternative way of income, why not get sponsors. I’m sure there are few magazines and companies or manufacturers which would like to hand out a paper model of their product. They could for instance pay you an X amount to design and produce their model and in this way give exposure to their product. So you’ll get paid for your model. Keep in mind some magazines and companies get exposure all over the world, so no need to sell it yourself, your design and name will travel the globe at no risk to you. Sure it could be scanned, but hey in this case you would have been paid for your effort and it would be the problem of major companies to battle copyright infringements should they choose too. This is maybe not the most favorite solution, but indeed some sort of one.
  5. shoki2000

    shoki2000 Active Member

    And you are talking about "changing attitudes".......
  6. Werner Smuts

    Werner Smuts Member

    It's just a matter of stating what I feel... Not saying what they did was right, but there's nothing you, I or anybody can do about people wanting to do the wrong thing!
  7. ml5716111

    ml5716111 Guest

    Where I come from there is a saying: "You may not finish the job, but you must do your part of the job", (In this case fighting piracy). If according to you we can't do anything about piracy, than we might as well close everything and go home.

    In my opinion, pirates have twisted view of life on earth. They paid for it, it belongs to them, they can do with it whatever they want, plus, SHARING!!! it's a very good thing to do, people will like them, will create good 'vibes' everybody sharing with everybody. they only ignore and don't care about the most important factor here - THERE ARE NO FREE LUNCHES. Sooner or later, it'll come back to them. And I'm saying this, from a personnal experience, a few years ago, I 'helped' someone by giving him a printed model to make a copy of. In return he gave me several b/w copies of kits I wanted. This was before I got into the paper models distribution business, and now those pirates also hurt me. And by the way,
    I never built those scans that I received, instead , I used most of the sheets to print something else on them, and bought the original kit(s) instead.

    If a potential pirate is reading this, please be aware that todays scientists, already agreed about the validity of the butterfly principle.
    We may not see the result of an action right away, but it'll come back to us, becuase they (cause & effect) are connected and unseparteable.

    It's a bit cruel on my part, but anyway, I wish the pirates that the distance between their actions and their reactions, will get shorter, and that they will realize what's really is going on.

    That was my monthly/annual post. Now back to reading...

  8. ml5716111

    ml5716111 Guest

    O, yes, we can do alot... hunting them down on the various file sharing sites is only one thing.

    Sorry, I'm a bit hot about this subject, no offense everyone, especialy
    Werner Smuts. :wave:
  9. Werner Smuts

    Werner Smuts Member

    You can't do anything to stop pirating. If they want to do it NOBODY including you and me will be able to stop them. Somebody else will just step in place of the other one....... Yes sure try to prevent it...... Maybe somebody will create some concept to stop piracy.... That person will make millions, because he would be able to sell it to TV, Music, Arts......
  10. ml5716111

    ml5716111 Guest

    This concept already exists, it's just that it requires a lot of effort, and it's changing ones conciousness which difficult but rewarding. And I'm talking about us not the pirates. We need to reach a critical mass of people who will change their conciousness and this will affect the pirates, without them even knowing what came over them. May not be in my life time, but anyway, must do it.
  11. Werner Smuts

    Werner Smuts Member

    Let's just hope it's sooner than later
  12. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    The only power that we here have, is to prevent the showcase building and display of illegal models.

    We can go out and hunt down models and have them removed from hosting sites but guaranteed, they will be right back up.

    It's like RIAA's fight with the downloading of music.

    We live in a time where a whole generation is growing up with the idea that they can download music/movies/software and it's OK. Casual conversation about the subject was like it was last night's football game. I should know, because I instructed for a college last year. For example ... Almost 70% of net traffic is from Bittorrents, a form of file sharing like Kazzaa or Napster. Quite daunting...

    So we CAN do a part and report hosting but there is far more work to be done. Stopping those who are using these files to showcase work here and sister forums would be paramount. Then from there we need to support our designers by actually buying product.
  13. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 Member

    Just to chime in here - there was someone who mentioned earlier that the designers should just make all of their models for free, and that others that do design their models for free don't put any less time, effort, and research into theirs. Now don't get me wrong. I enjoy a nice freebie, but I'd much rather buy the model I want and know that it's well done. Frankly, I've got a hard drive full of freebies that I downloaded legally, but have built very few of them (one's I've paid for either for that matter). On the other hand, I've also sponsored some designs such as the L-5 I have on and the B-25. If you REALLY want a designer to devote the time and effort - especially into a more obscure subject, it's very much worth paying for it. It kills me when I see the pirates because they don't realize that as others have said - if the designers can't eat (get paid), eventually the pirates will have nothing to do either! wall1 It really makes me sick.

  14. mcusanelli

    mcusanelli Member

    I've been there....

    I've been comming here for a while now, and card modeling for a little over a year, after accidentally discovering it while looking for some reference on Stargate Atlantis.( found the ''puddle jumper'' by Martin Sanger..) Im hooked, to say the least! I also just purchased your's one of the most amazing kits I've seen, a masterpiece I can't wait to build. I was very upset to see that you've been 'pirated' and considering that you made this kit available to everyone for such a small amount of money, it's so unjust. I can relate, as my partner Ken Ellis and I operate a small resin figure kit company called Solar Wind Productions - we have recieved many e-mails from our customers who are kind enough to report theft and re-casting of our kits that they come across. It's infuriating, and heart breaking to know that there are people who have no morals who are willing to rob artists who rely on this to make a just have to hope kharma eventually repays them. I hope you continue to make your designs available - It would be a loss to us all if you didn't!
    Also, I'd like to say thank you to all the modelers and designers who contribute to this forum and to this hobby - I've never seen such generosity in all my years of modeling ( 30 or so years!). As soon as I can get my 15 year old son to help me, I hope to start sending photos of my card models....I'm not very good with the computer!
    Thanks to all!
    Mike Cusanelli
  15. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    Nice first post Mike :) Welcome to the fold!
  16. Art Decko

    Art Decko Member


    I think that kind of defeatist attitude doesn't help anyone ... except pirates and their "customers".

    Do you apply the same thinking to your home security?

    "A thief with a chainsaw and a cutting torch can break into any house, no one can stop them, there will always be thieves ... so everyone should just leave their front doors open."

    I don't think that's true. You don't have to stop all thieves to benefit from some anti-thief measures.

    As for all designers working for free ... do you find any difference between music played by weekend hobbyists and music performed by paid professionals?

    Many/most card models today are designed by amateurs and hobbyists. Sure, there are some amazing free models out there, but IMO most freebies are pretty mediocre and amateurish. Graphics in particular are at the "coloring book" level for most free models (and barely better for many commercial models). After all ... you get what you pay for (unless you're a parasitic pirate, of course).

    Once we grow card modeling to the point where it can support larger numbers of professional designers and design houses, you are going to see lots more eye-popping models, more professionalized designs, styles, techniques, documentation, etc.

    We can't eradicate thievery, I agree with you on that. But there are things we CAN do. Like profit from it.

    Piracy operates over efficient, diversified, widespread distribution channels to reach volumes of model builders that no designer could ever dream of marketing to. The total volume of “transactions” in the pirate sector must be enormous, I bet it exceeds the total volume of legitimate sales by a wide margin, maybe by an order of magnitude.

    If we can use those high-volume channels to our advantage, and peel away even a small sliver of that traffic, we can really benefit our designers and the hobby in general.

    There are basic steps we can take to do that, steps any IP-producing industry takes, such as promoting anti-piracy messages and logos, incorporating designer copyright statements and contact information on every parts page, offering customized models, possibly using technology like digital keys, etc. My point is that, because of the volumes involved, I think we need only to persuade a very small percentage of "free-loaders" at the margins to make a significant difference for designers.

    It's easier to throw our hands in the air, and say that there is nothing anyone can do, and ask designers to just work for free and stop complaining. But then I think we condemn ourselves to building lots of mediocre freebie amateur models, and our hobby will remain a niche pastime.
  17. wccrawford

    wccrawford Novice Papercrafter

    It occurs to me that the easiest way to profit from thievery is to simply mark your models with a notice: Bought from ???.com (or some such similar notice) Maybe not even say 'bought', but just that that's where it's from.

    Pirates won't usually bother to remove those notices. They don't really care. So any honest people that come across it will have a chance to buy it, and any dishonest ones wouldn't have bought it anyhow.
  18. kneedeep

    kneedeep New Member

    Yes, the hobbyist is not trying to shove his inflated ego down my throat while i pay for it.
    boring thread, boring unstoppable topic, nothing but a distraction from what we really want to be doing.
    congradulations Ken, your model is worthy enough to steal. no offense meant.:wave:
  19. Art Decko

    Art Decko Member

    Exactly! Instead of "Bought from" it could say "Available at".

    Ken's model clocked 100 downloads at a single "warez" site, over what I assume was a relatively short period of time. How many other sites are there like that ... plus eBay CD compilers, peer-to-peer networks. If messages like "(c) Joe Designer 2009, This model available at Support Card Model Designers!" on parts pages persuaded just 0.5% of "free-loaders" to buy a legit copy, that could be a significant number of additional sales in exchange for a neglible effort. That's what I mean by looking for ways to benefit from the piracy distribution channels.
  20. Art Decko

    Art Decko Member

    By all means, please consider reading or posting in this thread to be 100% voluntary ... especially if you have nothing to add. :)
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