Thieves Among Us (Please Read)

Discussion in 'Zealot Archives' started by exzealot, Jan 16, 2009.

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  1. Ken:

    I am sorry to hear that someone has pirated your model. I could understand, and maybe even sympathize with someone copying and making available a model that is out of print and never likely to be available again, but when it is so new, and the designer still available to keep it going, there really is no excuse for distributing it without permission/paying for the copies.

    I hope that this doesn't keep you from doing new designs in the future, I'd really like to see some of the more unusual aircraft and vehicles designed by someone who can do them justice.

    I'd have bought a copy but right now I'm finishing out a contract and unsure of the next job. Once that is settled, I'll be in line for the X-15.

    By the way, have you thought about making a kit modification to match the original shorter version of the X-15?

    Tom Williams, Jr.
  2. barry

    barry Active Member

    Sorry it happened to you so quickly it's a beautiful model which of course is why they nicked it. Passwords on pdfs are too easy to crack and sending models out on CD's adds to the cost or reduces the take to the point where it is not worth bothering. I do not want to have to try and stop folks modifying what I offer without a load of fuss. I make a charge in the hope it will help pay for my internet link and the fact that I would be hopping mad to see some twerp adding them onto a disc he has so "skilfully" collected and put on Ebay and I made nothing. It's not the design it's all the b****y fag of numbering everything up and drawing diagrams.

    Maybe we could get Chris to have a list of benned email addresses not withstanding they would just change it anyway but at least they would have to do that. Sorry Chris that's just asking you to do more work.
  3. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    Hey all, I am researching this - I am still an admin here and owner there so I have a few resources at my disposal to check on people.

    In regards to key codes.... wont work - they can give that just as easily. Only way it will work is a unique keycode for each sale and thats just not feasible. Sell it on cd and they can do the same they are now. Only real solution is what Gremir does and I dont have the time (or patience) for that :)

    I do firmly believe that though the pirates are stealing the work, they dont cut into the sales too much because they NEVER would have purchased in the first place. They are only out for free things. 99% of the people are honest and I dont want to make things more difficult for the 99% :)
  4. The Hermit

    The Hermit Member

    i will make a purchase of your model in protest of the pirates that are stealing it.

    i would like to see all the others here that have thought of getting it do the same

    and as for the pirates treat them as in the days of old

    :eek: :thumb: sign1
  5. The Hermit

    The Hermit Member

    :wave:i have laid my blow gainst the darned pirates and made my purchase

    show support for it and make yours!!

  6. voyager76

    voyager76 New Member

    I work as a software developer and I really understand what it is to see a hard work getting spread without your permission.

    In addition, this model is a real beauty and the price you ask for it is almost for "le franc symbolique" as we say here in France. I can't say it's worth the price because its quality is far beyond $9. I bought it today, and I'm too times happy : for the excellent model and for putting a kick in the bottom of all those idiots putting it for free.

    And thank you Chris for thinking to people like me who use Linux and can not use Gremir's models. By the way, that's one of the reason's I use Linux : I don't want to use an illegal copy of Windows.

    Ken, I'm with you. Continue your superb models, I'll buy them.:thumb:
  7. Art Decko

    Art Decko Member

    I think that's the best outlook possible. :thumb:

    As cgutzmer and BARX2 sagely pointed out, pirates would never purchase a model, they only want FREE things, so at least there is no sales loss - although that does little to lessen the affront.

    Plus ... there is always the possibility that someone who gets the model down the line might be discovering card models, so some good could theoretically come from it.

    I suggest all designers put a copyright statement somewhere on every parts page - even just a simple "(c) John Doe, 2009". Maybe best to put it on a tab of the model itself.

    And it couldn't hurt to place somewhere on the page something like "This model not to be sold or re-distributed without permission of the designer", or "This is not a FREE model. Support card model designers."

    It's true that a pirate could delete copyright notices, but pirates are lazy - that's why they steal. So at least it makes them do some extra work with a graphics app. And if they leave it on, there can be no doubt to those aquiring the model later (unwittingly or otherwise) that it was stolen.

    Hmm ... maybe we should promote a standard anti-piracy logo for card modeling. A "ban" circle across a "jolly roger" or something? And under it maybe a simple statement such as "Support card model designers" - ?? All card model designers, commercial or otherwise, would be free to download it and add it to a parts page.

    As with a copyright statement, pirates would be forced to use a graphics app to remove the logo (which itself might deter the laziest of them) ... and if they don't, anyone acquiring the model would at least do so with full knowledge that some designer didn't get their due.

    Would this be an idea worth promoting ... or a futile gesture? :)

    Attached Files:

  8. Jones Brandon

    Jones Brandon Member

    i'm sorry for what happen man. that happen to me while back i build a halo ring world. so wish you good luck on looking for the fool that did it.wall1wall1
  9. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    It's funny in a way.

    When someone spots someone building a pirated model, there are sooooo many people here that jump up and say let him be using 'ignorance' as an excuse. The model designer is usually not a member so it seems that as long as they cannot voice their opinion it's ok.

    As soon as it's a member, there's more of a 'do something about it' opinion.

    Way too many people are 'on the fence' over the issue. Your either for or against it.
  10. paulhbell

    paulhbell Guest

    Apart from reporting the pirated model link to the file sharing site's, theres not a lot we can do about this problem. Music and video copyright protection has got better over the years, but theres always someone who can work a way around the protection. And it will be the same with putting passwords on files someone will always be around to ''de-password'' the files.

    I actually like the idea someone else has posted, alter the file (a rivot) every 100 sales (or even less), that way the copied files can be narrowed down to a smallnumber of people.

    While I agree with some of stevos points, I do disagree with that we only 'fight' for members. I've personally reported links to models, that are non-member models. I've also personally never seen a copied model being built on here. I've seen members scan and resize models, but they have already bought the model and they don't pass the model on freely.

    And by the way, I'm against pirated models.
  11. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    There are far too many file storage/sharing sites out there. Many offer a reporting system and it works most of the time. Thing is, once the link in question is taken down, it's usually right back up again.

    Paul ... I have seen pirated models being built here and other forums. Some have been outright pointed out and others get by.

    I like the idea of the built in identifier. It reminds me of the 'Screener' protection that companies use when they send movies to reviewers ahead of the screen date.

    Some will have cars in the background with different license plates that were altered digitally. Some will have billboards in the background altered digitally. The key would be something not outwardly noticeable.
  12. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    I like the idea... not sure how to go about it though...

    Thanks for the support guys!
  13. Art Decko

    Art Decko Member

    We can't get rid of piracy, but we can work to diminish or minimize it. Designers, builders and for-profit forums should work together, all have interests at stake.

    Let's brainstorm ... things we can do: one, as mentioned above, is customization:

    Why not go a step farther and make every model unique? Considering the sales volumes involved for many card models, this may be possible in some cases, especially if you automate the customizing process (e.g. Photoshop macro).

    Perhaps on some types of model subjects, this can be done as a "feature" - you sell it as free customization. "Every model guaranteed unique." When you buy the tank or fighter plane, you choose the serial number or name (and/or other markings, camo scheme, etc) that appear on the vehicle. Every serial number/name is registered ("guaranteed unique"). Every purchaser knows their model is unique ... and traceable. If the graphics are good, it will be hard for a pirate to alter them. That alone will deter some (many pirates are lazy, or they would earn money in some other fashion).

    Other ideas:

    * Make the buying experience attractive and personal. Have a cool website that is fun to visit, easy to use, polished in appearance. Anything to encourage people to buy legitimately. Personalize it with a blog, or a bio of the designer(s) ("Who are we" page). Make buying easy. Make payment easy. If you ask people to mail in a check and wait six weeks for delivery, you are discouraging legitimate sales.

    * Keep the price to an absolute minimum (I know, for card models this is already usually true, but we're brainstorming here ...)

    * Consciousness-raising campaigns ... use forums and the models themselves to raise awareness that pirating models hurts the designers who provide the enjoyment and advance the hobby. Get out the message that an $8 model required 300 hours to design and market. Push "San Francisco Values" - support small creativity-driven fair-priced businesses run by real people over sales-driven faceless corporations (the Craigslist model)

    * Facilitate relentless reporting wherever pirated models are seen. Forums can help with standardized downloadable form letters with all the right legalese. Forums can maintain updated contact lists of email addresses for reporting piracy (e.g. eBay) and reaching designers.

    * Label all models with copyright, trademark and other licensing info that add to the difficulty of pirating, and increase buyer awareness. This kind of info can appear on model tabs, or be otherwise integrated into the model's graphics so it is harder to remove (or obvious that it has been removed) without affecting the appearance of the model. For example, a simple "(c) Card Armor, 2009 (" or other text can be incorporated into the graphics on the bottom side of a tank. Removal would leave an obvious white box.

    * Designer's/publisher's email address should appear on the parts pages so they can easily be contacted by buyers and others.

    * Adopt a standard anti-piracy logo and promote it's use by designers. Makes it instantly clear that a model is not to be copied and freely distributed (or at least it's removal adds another speed bump to the pirating process)

    * Sell models with well-crafted licensing agreements. We can standardize and share these, so low-volume sellers can use them. These make it clear what the purchaser can and can't do. Licensing will have to be different for print models versus digital. (Is there a card model-loving copyright lawyer out there that could help with this?)

    * All of this should also apply to free models where the designer wants to control distribution (e.g. a freebie used to promote sales through site traffic). This would work to thwart the eBay CD compliers.

    Other ideas? Brainstorm!
  14. Well I think we have about exhausted that subject. I think the bottom line is that we repect the designers wishes with regard to their model. Copyrights exist to protect them. However if you lose sleep over those who fail to respect those wishes then you are going to waste a lot of energy. Those who steal would not buy it anyway so you have lost nothig but the knowledge they got it for free. Those who can and will pay will be your source of financial gain. So don't worry about it. I am a painter and I painted a picture of the San Diego Skyline with a split underwater scene. I published it and low an behold one day I was watching TV and who's picture did I see hanging on their wall? Mine, and I kept track of every one I sold because they were numbered and signed and they didn't buy one. Could I sue, probably but I wouldn't gain anything in the long run I was actually complimented that they liked it enough to use it. It was a long time ago. I never lost any sleep over it.
  15. wccrawford

    wccrawford Novice Papercrafter

    "so you have lost nothig but the knowledge they got it for free."

    Actually, that's not entirely true. He also loses all the sales from people who find it at the other spot, but never realize it was a pay model. They don't even know they -can- buy it, so they don't have the option.

    I doubt this would be a lot of people, but you can never really tell.
  16. wccrawford

    wccrawford Novice Papercrafter

    It's not simple math because not every one of those people would buy it. In fact, I bet relatively few of them would, even if they knew it was for sale someone and where to get it. That goes even moreso because it's an obvious pirate site.

    I don't know what model or site we're talking about, so that's not a dig on the work in question. It's just a matter of pirate mentality.
  17. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    I agree with everyone... the subject has been discussed at length, we all agree we dont like piracy. :)

    If you want to put in some effort to stop it let me know :) I can put you to work!

    Also N810 - looking forward to that. I think education is a good first step. Hopefully the non hard core pirates can be swayed when they know they really are hurting individuals.....
  18. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    I have to agree that just because 100 people have downloaded a $9 model does not mean that $900 in sales has been lost.

    The reason why I say that is because I have a whack of models I have purchased amongst the digital 'freebees' and I think I have built one or two. Not to say that even 1/10th of those downloads would be a welcome amount of $ to the creator.

    It's more pressure on digital artists which just sucks. I myself prefer digital models for the 'whoops' factor. When I lose a part, make a mistake or 'crunched' the whole works. I can just reprint the required parts and away I go.

    Hidden security is by far the best idea I have heard so far.
  19. OK I have a partial solution. There are enough of us here. Why not gang up on the site and bombard them with protests over their practice. I don't even know who we are talking about. But tell me who and I will get in touch with them in terms they wi8ll not like. Maybe if we all flood their "Contact" countless times a day they will retract the model from their site. Who knows it is worth a try. Meantime, I don't even know where I can get it legitimately. Perhaps someone could enlighten me so I can help in a small way buy buying the model. It is worth $9 for sure if that is indeed the price.
  20. Soaring

    Soaring Middle School Student

    *Cough**Cough*Support Ken*Cough* ;)

    EDIT: To Tim, Ken's model is up on the Ecardmodels Store.
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