the realm of armor....

Discussion in 'Armory & Military' started by nebeltex, Feb 4, 2004.

  1. charliec

    charliec Active Member

    There's an interesting photo at:

    It looks as if the holes in the side of the Goliath at about the center of gravity were the pick up points for the trailer. There also seems to be some sort of clamp on the trailer to stop the Goliath swinging on the support pins. It makes sense if you think that the Goliath weighed 430 kgs you'd want the weight exactly above the trailer wheel axle for it to be easy to manouver.

    Interesting project - in 1/25?

    Hope that helps.


  2. Jim Nunn

    Jim Nunn Member

    Charlie, Maurice

    Thanks, both are good finds and the shot of the (I assume) Russian front confirms a suspicion that the photo I have seen has incorrect wheels,
    I could not reconcile that bicycle tires could support 900Lbs it looks like the trailer used the typical ammo wagon wheels.

    Yes, If and when I get around to it, the model will be in 1/25 scale, my thought is to have it being towed by a Modelik Kettenrad, which by the way is a nice model.

  3. ButchPrice

    ButchPrice Member

    Hyper detail

    Just a personal weigh in here, I am a longtime
    plastic modeler that has the card modeling bug again.

    I know that the hyper detail models are awesome and impressive
    works of art. But truth be known, I like a kit that I can finish in
    a smaller timeframe, with a few less parts, and a bit more
    graphics. Many folks just don't have the time to commit
    to completion of models with that level of detail, and others
    like myself, simply don't care for the small sized parts and
    lack the dexterity or patience to fuss with that degree of physical

    I like to see my models in a finished state. My time to model
    comes in small bites, and I build in spurts. So kits like
    what Chip Flynn offers have a great appeal to me.
    I think that to draw more people into this hobby, there needs
    to be a cross section of both, complex precision models,
    and relatively simple highly graphic models.
    Some of the complex kits are very intimidating to me, and I
    am a meticulous plastic modeler. I am sure other "rookie"
    card modelers are overwhelmed by the complexity of
    some of the models out there.
    I am backing away from my plastics, primarily because
    it takes months to complete a good one, and I don't have
    the time or patience of late.
  4. charliec

    charliec Active Member

    What is this AFV

    I found this photo among my father's photos - what is the AFV shown?

    No prizes for the correct (or any answer). Please don't abuse me about the image the original photo was only about 4cm square and it had faded quite badly.


  5. Maurice

    Maurice Member


    It's a "Honey"
    Light tank M3, Stuart Mark 1 in British service and fitted with wading gear.
    The countryside could be England. Do you have any further info on the pic. ?

  6. charliec

    charliec Active Member

    Hi Maurice - thanks for that - I figured it was a Stuart (Honey) but couldn't identify the superstructure at the rear of the vehicle. The guy squatting on the front of the tank could be my father. I don't have any other info - it's a bit odd because the 8th Armoured Brigade used Shermans mostly. If it is England then it must be early 1944 since my father was in the Middle East before then.


  7. Maurice

    Maurice Member


    The Mk 1 was really only a stop gap used in North Africa from Nov 41 and phased out in favour of later marks and Shermans before the end of that campaign. The serial number is rather high for a MK 1 (judging by other pics.) so it may have been a late arrival used for wading experiments and training pre D-Day. It also lacks the sand shields normally fitted in N. Africa.
    This would fit in with your Dad's antics. :)

  8. charliec

    charliec Active Member

    Resource site closing

    The resource site for AFVs - is closing
    at the end of August 2004. Apparently the free hosting company can't handle
    the bandwidth this site uses. The site owner has had a number of hosting
    changes over the last few years and is basically giving up.

    Sad to see such a good resource built up over years vanish.

    Recommend some fast downloading before it all goes away.


  9. pashlispaht

    pashlispaht Member

    I have been following this thread with interest, and I have a few comments to make. About the working torsion bar suspension - The comment about matching the flexibility of the suspension to the weight of the vehicle has given me an idea. I built the GPM King Tiger, and I modified it to have a functional track and roadwheels. A problem with the track though, was that the weight of the vehicle was insufficient to make the track function. I have to push down on the top of the vehicle to get it to work. Otherwise, it just skids across whatever surface it is on. Maybe the best approach would be to weight the vehicle and that would help with both issues.... Also, many actual tanks use rubber on the roadwheels. The roadwheels on my model turn, but there is slippage. Maybe someone has an idea about how to attach rubber in some form to the wheels. I can just hear the purists cringing...
  10. Maurice

    Maurice Member

    I find running across a bedspread or similar works for mine.
    Once the surface has gripped the tracks the wheels should follow.

  11. rickstef

    rickstef Guest

    try rubber cement, let it dry thoroughly first.

    maybe the same can be achieved with dry Elmers or a tacky glue

  12. silverw

    silverw Member

    Hello pashlispaht
    I've done a couple things with paper belts and pulleys and had problems with them slipping. I found the slip could be helped considerably by applying a thin coat of silicone to the inside of the belt and the outside of the pulley. I just used the normal bathtub sealer variety and then let it dry. Perhaps this could be applied to your tracks and wheels.

  13. pashlispaht

    pashlispaht Member

    Does this method have any effect on the color? Is the silicone obvious? Does this product come in a variety of colors, or is it possible to color it? I have the Fly Model M1 Abrams, and I have been giving a good deal of thought to modifying it. In particular, changing the tracks from a "belt" to indidual links. Maybe a test build would be in order..... I would love to hear from anyone who has experience with this kit.
  14. charliec

    charliec Active Member

    Can I inject a historical note here....

    Rubber was a strategic material in WW2 - the synthetic rubber industry had barely started by the outbreak of war so many of the combatants tried to reduce or eliminate the use of rubber in AFVs as far as they could. The Russians used all steel tracks and didn't use rubber tires on road wheel rims for their medium and heavy tanks (except at the start of WW2 for the T-34). The Germans were in a similar position and stopped using rubber roadwheel tires on their heavier AFVs in favour of monoblock designs (the rubber was internal to the wheel). Only the USA had sufficent supplies of rubber to use it on tracks.

    For the (non)moving track problem - is it that the paper vs paper static friction is high it takes a fairly large force to get the wheels turning or is it
    just the low friction between the track and wheels which prevents them from turning. If it's the former then maybe you need something to remove the paper-paper contact within the wheels. I've had some success using washers made from old floppy disk plastic to reduce the static friction in moving paper parts. Why floppy disks? The plastic in the disk is designed to rotate under a read head and has a pretty low coefficient of friction in contact with most materials.


  15. Maurice

    Maurice Member


    For working paper tracks the only problem I've found is in getting traction between the ground and the track. Either for the ground to drive the track or the other way round. Never had a problem with the tracks not turning the wheels.
    Full size steel tracks don't grip too well on some surfaces either. Turning on wet or icy cobblestones was great for graceful sideways slides into buildings.
    Many post war tanks had detachable rubber pads for road running but that was mainly for the benefit of the road surface.

  16. pashlispaht

    pashlispaht Member

    I think where I am having problems is with the inner axle and the outer paper sleeve that the wheels are connected to. It is paper on paper, and I think the friction might be a little too high; especially when changes in humidity can cause the paper to expand or contract. The treads do work just fine on carpet though. But not all of the wheels turn evenly. Maybe I might need to modify my axle design. Anyway, lots of food for thought for my next armor model.
  17. charliec

    charliec Active Member

    I've done some work on the problem of paper wheels - I agree if you have
    2 concentric paper cylinders forming the axle and wheel centre it will often have problems with friction. I must write up some solutions I've tried.

    Tracks with rubber inserts on ice are not fun things either - there's some observations about the rubber insert tracks used by Shermans during WW2


  18. jrts

    jrts Active Member

    Hi all

    This is just an idea I used a while back, I built a tower crane for my kids to play with (not to scale or anything). After we had made this thing we had the same problem of friction. The way I got round this was to soak the both the insert tube and the carrier tube in super glue, let it dry over night. Then use some silicon grease just enough to remove the friction problem, it worked.
    The only thing with this is I have not done it since then and the model did not last long enough to see what long term effect the grease would have on the card!!
    When the model was thrown out the card was still the same as fitted.

    Just an idea


  19. Maurice

    Maurice Member

    40 years ago I used rolled gummed brown paper tape for the axles with rolled plain paper hubs well glued with polystyrene cement, and they still operate. But now I use plain paper soaked in CA.
    Never needed lubrication but I would use powdered grapite if required.
    Of course absolute concentricity is needed for the hubs and circumferences of the wheels and this may be difficult with adapted kit parts, don't know.
    What I do know is that so far I've had fun printing with enough accuracy for making tracks at 1/72 scale. A bit of manual reversion has been needed.

  20. pashlispaht

    pashlispaht Member

    How do you soak the paper in CA? Do you just squirt CA from the tube onto the part until the part is saturated? Do you have to sand the part afterwards? I am dying to try these ideas out, but I have to finish my Stuka first. Thanks for all the advice!

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