The On30 conspiracy

Discussion in 'On30 Forum' started by sumpter250, Aug 26, 2002.

  1. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

    Very nice indeed! The 2-6-6-2 I mentioned at the start of this will be done out of two of the Bachmann moguls. That's going to be a while down the line however, I have to finish the 2-8-2, and get some scotch..uhhh water, flowing on the diorama, and build several O scale trees first.

    Understand "next year". Re. module standards, 'Not only can we assimilate, but we can dictate terms! ":D :D :D
    If someone shows up at Trainfest with On30 modules, I'll get some pics, and post'em.
  2. Catt

    Catt Guest

  3. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

    I'll try to keep that date open, Jackson is about 4 hours from me, so not out of the question.
  4. Catt

    Catt Guest

  5. Partsman

    Partsman Member

    RE: Great Lakes Conspiracy

    been there. added it to my Yahoo group

    - Bill in southern Ontario
  6. Catt

    Catt Guest

    Hey Bill,welcome to the GLC. Now there are 3 of us. :D :D :D
  7. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

    Make that four :) :) :)
  8. Catt

    Catt Guest

    Ya been welcomed Pete :D :D
  9. TinGoat

    TinGoat Ignorant know it all

    NMRA On30 Module Standards and Recommended Practices...

    If this is true, then where did these come from???

    NMRA On30 Module Standards and Recommended Practices.
  10. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

    Tingoat, and any other interested parties,, Model Power now owns Mantua, and will be retaining the 2-6-6-2. They say they're going to make some improvements, and try to lower the price, so this may become a good source for an articulated chassis for On30.
  11. TinGoat

    TinGoat Ignorant know it all


    Poor Mantua... I think that they owned for a short time in the 70's by Tyco? Tyco bought one of the model railroad companies and almost destroyed it before it managed to slip free and rebuild itself. I've got an old Tyco HO 0-4-0 that I got for X-mas one year. It seazed up on it's second lap around my layout and I was never able to revive it. Any of the Model Power HO trainsets that I have seen in the stores are very toy-like and cheap. I have heard that they also make some quality stuff, but I've never seen any.

    Thanks, I'll have to keep this in mind. My passion for articulated motive power is leaning towards Garratts.

    A Complete list of Garratt Locomotives

    I've got a couple of HO 0-6-0's that are "awaiting their mating" to kitbash an On30 0-6-0+0-6-0 Garratt. If I can scrounge together some other parts, I'll try to make it an On30 4-6-2+2-6-4.
    It will be a while before I get to this project....
  12. Catt

    Catt Guest

    Why not ask the 0n30 modular groups where those specs came from?Because nobody I know has had any imput into these specs.In fact most people don't even know they exist.

    I have other thoughts about the NMRA but this ain't the place to bring them up.
  13. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

    FYI, standards........
    One of the tightest narrow gauge curves was on the Uintah, at 66 degrees(on a 7.5% grade). In O scale, this is btweeen 22", and 24" radius. In HOn3, i run on 45 degree curves (18" radius), this would be 35" to 36" in O scale. An 18" radius in O scale is an 86 degree curve! even a shay might have problems with this!
  14. TinGoat

    TinGoat Ignorant know it all

    Module Standards. (The Devil's Advoacate.)

    From what I can tell, there does not appear to be any one predominant On30 group. N Scale has the NTrack gang to set standards, but for On30 it tends to be a free for all....

    It's not suprising, since many On30 modellers tend to be the rugged individualist type.

    Since there wasn't and/or isn't any predominant On30 group to advise the NMRA, the NMRA is left to arbitrarily dictate standards.

    I can't speak from direct experience... But it appears to me from some things I have read on other forums that the On30 Conspiracy is a group of flamewarriors and the like. It only takes one or two rotten apples to spoil the bunch, but to an On30 newbie, like myself, it is a little off putting.

    At the same time... Some finescale modellers and rivit counters tend to look down their noses at On30 modellers for not following prototype. Afterall, D&RGW was 36" gage, not 30". There are so few examples of 30" gage railways in North America that they are not well documented and/or not worthy of attention. As much as I like and admire Bachmann for making entry into On30 affordable, they also perpetuate this perception by painting and lettering equipment for roads that were not 30".

    This is a real shame... To me, On30 represents the ultimate outlet of creative energy. By not being bogged down with prototype, there is a lot more room for creativity and freelancing. On the other hand, it can be a real challenge for those that wish to persue prototype, because their work is really cut out for them when it comes research and reference.

    Now if we could all just get along... ;)
  15. Catt

    Catt Guest

    Having been a member of the On30 Conspiracy for a little while I can testify to the fact that I have seen absolutely no Flame warriors at all. Rivet counters don't exist in this scale.(how do you count rivets on a 2' gauge car or loco built to 30" standards?)

    Actually as far as standards are concerned HO track standards and On3 clearence standards should work just fine.But until such time as the various On30 modular groups agree on standards the NMRA is just simply blowing smoke over On30 .

    Maybe there should be a modular group called On30TRAK established. :D :D What do you guys think of that idea??
  16. TinGoat

    TinGoat Ignorant know it all

    This sounds reasonable to me, but you need a ticket to ride this train...

    I'm not sure about this one.... I think it is more of a case of 3' gauge cars and locos, riding on 30" gauge track. Many On30 modellers run On30 while pretending that it is 3' gauge. There were 30" gauge lines in North America. They were few and far between but they did exist. A lot of rolling stock and motive power was freelanced by the individual roads and there was very little standardization. They were usually industrial and or for logging. They are just not well documented. You can find Rivet Counters and Nit Pickers in every scale/gauge. There are several 30" lines in South America and in Africa as well as other places around the world. So prototypes do exist for those that look for them. It is interesting that Europeans and folks from Australia (For Example.) often model North American Railroads, but very few North Americans model any thing beyond our own shores.... I have started to research Sierra Leone Railroads since they combine the two things that I am interested in. 30" gauge and Garratts.

    Be that as it may.... If you look at the Standards that the NMRA has posted, it looks as though they have done what you suggest. Although On30 has been around for quit a while, I don't think that it has enjoyed the popularity that On3 has. I think that it has only been the last few years that it has taken off. Thanks in part to manufacturers like Bachmann for making entry into this obscure scale/gauge affordable. They are cashing in on an aging group of Baby Boomers. Modellers who already have an investment in HO, but due to aging eyes, find that O scale is easier to work with.

    I don't think that a new group needs to be formed. The On30 Conspiracy is already a large group that advocates On30. It just needs to formalize its membership, to bring a united front to the NMRA. There is strength in numbers. It is just a matter of organization to change it from being a mob to being a recognised and respected group. The downside of this is $$$. Dues would have to be collected and NMRA Membership would have to be paid.

    You need a ticket to ride this train...
  17. Catt

    Catt Guest

    Actually the whole n30 thing came about as a way to make narrow gauge a little easier to do.It is much easier to do narrow gauge if you don't have to handlay all your track and turnouts but can use readily available components from a smaller scale.

    Nn30 =z scale track
    HOn30 =N scale track
    On30 =HO track

    of course now there are at least a dozen variants using other scale track to create new gauges such as On18 which uses N scale track to emulate mine and small industrial trackage(Nscale track at 9mm =18" in O scale). There were also plantation railroads that used this gauge.

    My thoughts about On30TRAK comes from the fact that there are several modular groups that I know of in On30 and they not only do not use the NMRA specs ,but have no compatability to each others standards either.My intentions are the forming of an NTRAK type of group(modular) to establish a set of standards that anybody/eveybody can live with.

    As for On30 modelers pretending the are modeling 3' railroads you can blame Bachmann for that since the railroad they based their On30 line for prototype is a 3 ' gauge railroad.

    Most of the passengers cars on my On30 layout will be based on the Sandy River & Rangly Lakes RR which is a two footer but my railroad is a three footer set in very modern times.

    That really is the fun part of On30, you can model the gauge you want it to be.:D :D :D

    By the way AHM actually got HOn30 started in this country but it was called Hoe then. I believe it still is in Europe.
  18. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

    Aside from a friendly "push" or two, what got me started in On30 was, it's a different scale than I've been in for so long, and, because there really weren't many 30" gauge railroads, it's easier for me to freelance. I have enjoyed, and still do, working in HOn3. Some day I'll have a space big enough to build an HOn3 layout modeling the Sumpter Valley Railway, 1939-1947, when the 250, and the 251, the largest narrow gauge locos in the U.S. were active.( Yes, I have both the engines.) In the meantime, The Sag Harbor Shipbuilding & Drydock Co. will have to suffice.
    Interesting, Catt, that you should choose Sandy River & Rangely Lakes. I've decided to set my On30 in roughly that same area. It'll be the Wiscasset Bucksport & Schoodic Point, and will exist mainly to haul milled lumber to market.( Kinda like the SVRY)
    I was at the local Hobby shop yesterday, and they had two On30 coaches at 50%off, so I now have material for lengthening some coaches, and maybe even a few windows left over to do a "Drovers caboose",or combination caboose.
    Work progresses on the 2-8-2. The coal boards are done, the electrical rewiring is done, and the backhead is in place, needing detail. I got the frame extension (under the cab) in, and trailing truck equalizer, and ashpan detail done. I have decided to scratchbuild a new air pump, and complete the air piping next.
    I have the material for the retaining walls to complete the trestle on the diorama, and once that's done, scenery can be started. (maybe a willlow tree would be easier in O scale).
    I'll get some new photos taken and post'em.
  19. TinGoat

    TinGoat Ignorant know it all

    This Horse ain't dead yet... Floggin' NMRA On30 Module St&RP's

    I have it on good authority that the On30 Module Standards and Recommended Practices were not designed by Machiavellian Dictators. :D

    The NMRA welcomes input and discussion on all aspects of the hobby. They lead, and the rest of us can choose to follow or not as we desire.

    Just because the NMRA has set out Standards and Recommended Practices, doesn't mean that any individual or group has to follow them. Any group or individual is welcome to set their own standards.

    What I don't need to do is re-invent the wheel. If I can find On30 Modellers in my area that already have modules, then I will be inclined to follow their lead. If I find On30 Modellers or other interested parties in my area that would like to start making Modules, then the NMRA Standards and Recommended Practices make a good starting point.

    By having the NMRA provide these guidlines, anyone, anywhere in the world can log on to the NMRA Website, follow the suggestions and be able to mate up their module with others and have it work.

    This seems to me to be a good thing.
  20. Catt

    Catt Guest

    I give up.

Share This Page