ships hull problem question

Discussion in 'Tips, Tutorials & Tools' started by Fisher, Jan 5, 2007.

  1. Fisher

    Fisher New Member

    My simple question is this, why when covering the ships hull like in the DIGITAL NAVIES and HALINSKI MILITARY MODELS, a Polish company!, they all ways end up NOT! spaning the gaps between bulkheads??.

    I guess it will be my own fault that this is happening but, for the life of me, I can not see/find where I am going wrong,as, the sheets are all correct in proportions to one another, scale etc etc, so, where do I look for a sollution to the maddening problem???????????.

    If I have not portrade the problem fully and accuratly here, sorry, take a look at the Digital Navies site ti see how their ships hulls are completed as to understand fully/correctly as to my problem........many thanks to all


  2. cardmodeler

    cardmodeler Member

    I just started in on a Halinski submarine model, but have not gotten to the skinning part yet. Judging from the apparent good quality of the Halinski airplane models I have seen built here I was hoping this one would be of the same caliber. I guess I'll find out soon enough...
  3. swiftsword

    swiftsword Member

    Tom - there can be any number of reasons for this, but I doubt there's a problem with the kit as such. I've built DN's Oslyabya and it fit together without any gaps. I've seen builds of other DN models, and they fit fine, too.

    1. (most likely, IMHO) The card you use to laminate is thicker than 1mm. Note that the end result needs to be 1mm thick, including the sheet you're laminating.

    2. (less likely, but you should check) You scaled the sheets differently when you printed them out. Scaling should be off when printing.

    3. (The one none of us care to hear) You weren't as exact in cutting / sanding the formers as was required.


  4. barry

    barry Active Member

    most likely they only just to say fit anyway you have not got a lot of room to manouver, about 1/32 nd inches. Are you sticking the capping strips over the formers to give a glue strip. Most folks start at the ends and work into the middle (middle meaning the straightest edged piece) adjusting the error there because it's easier. Go and read Christophs threads on hull making on (just at the moment it will redirect you) tells you a lot, do not be put off by the fact he is a genius at it.
  5. Fisher

    Fisher New Member

    my thanks

    swiftsword & cardmodeler ,

    Thanks for the replies, as for scale, in PDF I set to margin as printer, so keeping all as shown on screen so to speak; the lamination is less than 1mm, my construction policy is, print and laminate to what is needed for B/Heads, keels decking, and as for all others items, as per what it is said to be, in this case, 1mm...........

    Its just that the skins for the side`s of the hull, seem to be rather under size and rather unsure of the best and easiet way to sort this out???!!!!!!!, BTW, I cut a very keen line matey ha ha ha ha.........

    Regards all,

  6. Fisher

    Fisher New Member

    Barry thanks mate, BUT!!


    Cheers mate, alas, the site is now down as far as internet browser is concerned, says there are possible problems.mmmmmmmmmm, never rains yet it pores!!!!!!!!...........


  7. Fisher

    Fisher New Member

    To all concerned in this matter

    Well, after trying and scraping 3/4 times, I can say with out contradiction two things;

    A, Its not my cutting or sizing that are at question, had this checked out by some mates to make sure all was correct................IT WAS!!!!!!!!

    B, The HALINSKI MILITARY MODELS ship I was attempting to make, RM Bolomeo something or other, is xxxxxx, and I guess their other models could well be the same!!!.

    These are my own findings and, as stated, supported by some mates who have nothing to gain by supporting me other than making sure that what I have said is true and correct, I have nothing to gain or loose by making a false statment of fact.

    This has made me decide NOT to model in card, or to offer it as an alternative to plastic or resin based models, tho` far more expensive, at least they can be relied upon to deliver the standards and profesional model to give a person a fair and honest chance to full fill their dreams, and, a quality model at the end............

    Sorry if this might be offensive to any one who read this, all I can say is that it is a true and fair / honest statment of the facts as they are and nothing less........................

    Regards and thanks,

  8. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    I don't understand why, with a little diligence, you could not pick up the space by sanding some of the formers or picking up the space in other areas. As far as fit, Card modeling offers more opportunity to "make it fit" than any other modeling technique. I have built many models (designed a few too) and that's what I like about card modeling, the variabilities. Me thinks you gave up to soon. Just think how proud you will be when you make it fit. I used to build helicopters at a famous aircraft company. We had a program called "file to fit", things don't always work out in the real world either.
  9. Fisher

    Fisher New Member


    My dear friend, I to have made many many card models in the space craft area, also buses and many aircraft, bi-planes, jets, WW2 fighters etc etc, and do a lot of 3D modeling for models back to 1997.

    Accepting as such your points, with my background etc, I realy do think that I have given the company and model far more time than it seems to have warrented, O, btw, I also used to make 1/72 scale R/C aircraft carries and other warships and R/C submarines, both periods WW1 & 2, but now a days find that its to much to do, so decided to lower my expectations,................card models, mmmmmmmmmmmm, I say no more my freind, thanks for taking the time to respond, apreciated...

    Regards and hope you are well,

  10. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    Please forgive me, I thought you were not satisfied with card modeling in general. I do agree if a particular company is found to be "not up to standards" one should no longer deal with them. Card models do take up a lot of time and I myself find that smaller subjects fit into my schedule easier.
  11. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    So you are not going to make card models anymore? I have never heard of a quality complaint from halinski before (not saying its not true just never heard it)

    Sorry to see ya go but if its not enjoyable for you then no sense doing it. take care and hope ya change your mind.

    On a side note has anyone else made this specific model?
  12. popala

    popala Member

    Fisher: if you are unable to make the parts fit on models that others successfully built in the past, it might be that you picked a model for which you lack experience. Spacecraft, aircraft and vehicle models do not necessarily prepare you for building ships. It might be helpful to look through ship construction reports here and on the Polish and German forums to see how experienced ship modelers handle hulls.

    I hate to see you summarily dismiss and entire hobby or an excellent publisher because of one botched model. Be it plastic, paper or wood - we have all had a bad modeling experience but we did not give up so easily...
  13. barry

    barry Active Member

    ship hulls

    Just a thought what does "margin as printer" do, if it is not equivalent to print at 100% I would look hard at it. If you are referring to Dn's ships then they will fit if printed correctly. Have you checked the output from the printer against a known square and circle.
  14. Fisher

    Fisher New Member

    Hi mate, yes to your test querry, all OK!!, seems that, after you get to skin layer 5 and 6 it just will not fit to the upper mid strengthener pecies, you know the one`s, mid way going from bows to stern.

    The printer is set as to 100% the margin just makes sure that you don`t go printing over scale of the A4 paper so only getting half of what ever you where printing does not stop after this set-up and on 100%, you getting a true and correct representation of the model or, what ever,as long as its correct in the first place or you just print off the same errors time and time again, designers error, and NOT the printers in this case!!.

    Will say that the hull keel and bulkhead after deciphering the Polish, now understand that these are to be of 2MM, the rest 1MM thick, but, alas, this does nothing to elleviate the problem of the quarter inch gap at the water line where the lower skins and the above skinings have to meet.

    Having shown it to another card modeller freind of mine, his first idea was, WHAT IS THIS xxxxx??, but after this, his answer was that the lower skinnings are short by design and that, it will need re- sizing to cover to an extent so as to elleviate the gap which he is convinced is down to an over sight by the designer, so will have to re size all skinnings from 4 through to 9 and if so will need to re-do ALL of them as the need arises.

    I know that there are a lot of persons out their that will read this and cures me badly for the above, "" How dare he!!!!!!!!!"", and, ""Who does he think he is??!!"", mmmmmmmmmm, well im the guy that tells it as it is and, gives as in this case, a factual account of the situation as to date, so, if i do not please , DON`T reply!!, I will try a DN kit some time but we will see what happens, and to the person who mistakenly thinks that their is a great and fundermental differance between ships and planes and rockets, sorry chaps, their ain`t, AS, both have to be of merchantable quality to get to a reasonable stage in there construction, this never got their so that`s that.

    Should any one have any good pointers for me, i am not that proud as to accept them, the sites on hull constuction are according to IE browser, DE-FUNCT and so give`s a 404 error, site no longer avaliable or totaly faulty, please assertain sites are still usable please and im oblidged to you.

    Well, thats it, guess I have upset some of you, will try to feel up-set..............OK so i won`t ha ha ha ha , to be fair, if i have, sorry, but, I can ONLY speak from what and how I find what ever it is, AND how ever it is, and I am sure you would not wish me to be any other...or perhaps ????????????.

    Many gratefull thanks and regards to every one,

    Best wishes to all................Tom.....
  15. barry

    barry Active Member

    ship hull

    You are not trying to build Hood are you, if you are it don't fit end of story some of theirs are good others are a bit iffy. is back up again he had to change sites for a while.
  16. Fisher

    Fisher New Member

    Hood? no mate, and the site,!!!, mmmmmmmm er, I don`t speak German much, and, the language selector does not alter it to English, plus, some of the pages don`t come up correctly, so, all in all, not much to go on as such mate.

    Many regards Barry,

  17. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    Tom, I had a long post typed up and one of my stupid cats stepped in the keyboard so in short:
    I appreciate your letting us know about possible fit problems. Dont worry about ticking people off with your own experiences - thats how we all learn about kit particulars. I think what got to most people was it sounds like you want to quit card modeling altogether because you got a kit that isnt working out (with no fault of your own) - it happens...

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