Discussion in 'Gallery & Designs' started by Bionic Modeler, Nov 17, 2007.



Poll closed Dec 17, 2007.

    7 vote(s)

    55 vote(s)
  3. NO

    1 vote(s)
  1. After asking this question of a few designers, I thought I would put it up for the rest of you. So far all the designers I have talked to have been very gracious about allowing the sale of their models in the completed form. Never the printed form either digital or pre-printed.

    So far everyone has agreed that once you build a model you can do whatever you want with it. Personally I agree with that thinking. However I would go a step further and say that it would be unthinkable not to give fair credit to the designer as well.

    After all does this not call attention to the hard work of the designer? does it not create interest in your designs and card modelling as a whole?

    What say you on the subject?
  2. causticphlegm

    causticphlegm Member

    I voted permission not necessary. Once built I'll do whatever I please with it, and of course giving credit where credit is the skill of the designers that even make it possible for this great hobby to exist.

    That being said, I would have to charge hundreds of dollars for a model to be worth it to me seeing as how bloody long it takes me to build one. Not something any sane person would pay. sign1
  3. jaeike

    jaeike Member

    I also agree that once built, permission isn't necessary. I figure the charge is pretty much all for labor. If I were to sell any of the models I've built, I think I would not only have to give credit where it's due for the design, but also where they can get it for free (or pay for a modest fee) in the description. That way they have an honest option.
  4. OylPslyk

    OylPslyk Aspiring Usurper

    once its built its pretty much protected as yours as a work of art anyway, so no permissions nessesary is my vote too. still doesnt hurt to give props to the author tho.
  5. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    I think it's ok unless you did a horrible job and made the designer look like a dummy... j/k.

    It's your time and effort you put into creating the final work and if you did such a good job that you feel you should be able to sell it then you should be rewarded for those efforts. Why you would hand off your work is beyond me but like selling the model, that is your business.
  6. Art Decko

    Art Decko Member

    Sounds like basically Person A is paying Person B to build the model for them.

    Assuming the model was originally acquired legally, the designer is not losing a sale, since Person A has some reason for not wanting to build it himself. In fact, the deal probably represents an *extra* sale for the designer. If it were not possible to purchase a pre-built kit from someone, Person A may well have not purchased the kit at all. Even if he did, it's still one model sale, no matter who the builder is.

    By essentially providing a building service, I would think that Person B is probably expanding the designer's potential market and increasing total sales volume. Why would a designer object to that? :)
  7. I have sold numerous models on e-bay. All built of course. I have up to now asked permission to do so however I would still always give credit to the designer. I am a disabled person and I have accumulated so many models that I found I could enjoy the hobby and the building and share it with others too. I sell my work as a piece of art and have built many of Dan Shippey's (Delta-7) models and sold them. I get better and better each time I build one. I can now build an almost flawless model each time. I never look at the instructions as I have them memorized. But my sales have also resulted in additional sales for Dan as I refer all interest from potential buyers to him. So like someone said already it is really a win win for all. But I respect the designers and want to know their overall opinion so I have their blessing so to speak. Carl has also been kind enough to share your opinions. In fact he told me he was flattered that i would choose his work to offer to offer to others. Keep the answers coming were not done yet.
  8. SteveM

    SteveM Member

    Commercial kits, legally acquired and paid for can be sold either assembled or unassembled with no permission required. The original purchase transfers complete ownership of that single kit to the purchaser.

    The issue of free downloads, I believe is more complicated. In that case, you do not acquire true ownership of the kit, only a license to print and build it it. When you put it up for sale, you are not just selling your labor, but the author's design and artwork. That is, a buyer is not just buying your labor, he is buying the subject and the design.

    At the risk of sounding like I'm splitting hairs, I think there is an ethical difference between selling completed models and hiring yourself out as a "builder for hire". That is, downloading a kit, building it, then offereing it for sale is different than accepting payment to build a kit (even the same kit) provided to you by the client. I know the end result is the same, but I think the process is what makes the difference.
  9. rlc321

    rlc321 Gundam designer wannabe

    i agree as long as you get permission from the designer then it should be ok whether its a printed digital or a fully built model the actual design is still the designers own material so should always get permission first, ten that way there should be no comebacks at all, like a designer could see his model being sold in completed built form when he already says its free to download he may get a bit upset, so a little note just to say what your doing should be good for the comunity and card models in general. any way thats my opinion. but i think it will be that same for most designers...
  10. paulhbell

    paulhbell Guest

    Another choice.

    I'm not sure what to vote for here, as I agree with the comments above about, the model was built by you, so you do what you want with it. But I do think the people who design the models should be rewarded for their work, so normally if a link is provided for a donation, I donate, even if it's just a small amount, I.E. £1/$1.
  11. Lex

    Lex Dollmaker

    Personally I'd not object to anyone selling builds of my models, even without my permission, but to play safe I'll contact the designer before doing so. Anyway the designer still got their share already.

    ==Not sure if this thread counts as copyright discussion... Lex out==
  12. dansls1

    dansls1 Member

    I voted permission not necessary - but I agree it's a little more sticky if you are discussing free download models. I was just thinking about commercial kits when I voted. If there was a separate choice for 'permission on free models, no permission for commercial' - that'd be my vote ;)
  13. Art Decko

    Art Decko Member

    Like Dansls1, when I posted earlier I was thinking of commercial kits. Free downloads, I'm not as sure about, that's a little different.

    In that case I think communication with the designer is called for. It may not be legally required, but it seems to me a matter of personal ethics. After all, it takes much more work to design a model (even a free one) than to assemble one, so if money is somehow being made from a free download, I think the designer should at least know about it. Although I suspect few free download designers would object, I think decency calls for at least making a good-faith effort to contacting them.
  14. All good points so far. keep them coming
  15. TheWebdude

    TheWebdude Just a Member

    I went permission not necessary. With a caveat on the free kits. On the one hand one would certainly deserve to be compensated for their hard work assembling. On the other I don't think churning them out assembly line style would be appreciated by some.

    Me? I'm fine with either. Just don't sell the pattern (kit).

    Technically, assembled kits are considered to be derivate works but I'm not going to open up 'that' can of worms.sign1.
  16. julescrafter

    julescrafter Member

    It's okay by me if someone sell the built models. It goes to the free model. But please don't sell the pattern. it takes times and energy to design one. I voted permission not necessary.
  17. ekuth

    ekuth Active Member

    As a designer and a builder, I'd say permission not necessary as long as we're dealing with a built model. You're being paid for the time you put into assembling it.

    Giving the designer credit would be nice. :thumb:

    Selling the pattern, that's another matter. Definate no-no. If the designer decides to throw the pattern out there for a free download, that's what it should be. People with an internet connection and half a brain can get it.

    Those lowlife scumbags who pull gigs of free models off the net and sell them for profit should be lined up and shot. Then drawn and quartered. :curse:

    Sorry, got off on a bit of a rant there... :oops:
  18. OylPslyk

    OylPslyk Aspiring Usurper

    Hrmmm... Shouldnt we quarter them 1st, then shoot whatever still wiggles?:twisted:
  19. Drawn and quartered

    tell us how you really feel lol
  20. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Active Member

    Having worked at a hobby shop a few years Back, I have to agree with SteveM.

    What I see a lot of designers do is add their name, website, email etc. to certain unobtrusive parts, like the bottom of a display stand. that, in my book is the best solution to this problem. The designer gets his credit, the builder gets his payment and the client gets his model.

    If the designer adds a txt file with the digital files, defining his preferences for how the model is used, that much the better. I'm not suggesting adding an EULA that's a hundred pages long, just a few words.

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