ok here we go! Today I went to a local store to buy some pvc to put on rims and try drifting. I went to Menards and bought a 5 foot section for... 4 bucks . Went back to my uncles, cut 8 of hem slightly larger then the rims. I glewed them on to the rims, put them on my 4tec and off I went. All in all they worked well. I was sliding around corners easly! I tryed it on my rs4 and it didn't work to well. If any on you have a 4wd touring car and a extra set of spare rims go out and buy some pvc and give it a try.