Purchased kit ettiquette

Discussion in 'General Card Modeling' started by cgutzmer, Sep 20, 2006.

  1. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    I just bought several models from lighthouse. Are we allowed to scan them and print for our own use? I just hate to cut into the book, especially with my abilities.....
  2. shoki2000

    shoki2000 Active Member

    As long as you are doing it for your own use, it should be ok.
    That's my take on this issue....
  3. gwssms

    gwssms Member

    This has always been a bit of a puzzle for me because many people build "resized" or "recolored" versions of commercial kits. Some of the same people who have created threads on these types of builds have also advocated the practice of destroying the original model if you build from a scanned copy, although I doubt very much that many are altruistic enough to actually follow this advice. I warn you, this subject is a hot potato and will spark lots of opinions, statements of "fact" and various copyright laws. Personally, I agree with Mike. Build it and enjoy it! :)
  4. shoki2000

    shoki2000 Active Member

    As long as you do not sell/trade/give away the original when building a copy, you are ok.
    The same discussion had place on Polish forums and that was the agreement of all invloved. they also had excerpts from the applicable law publications to back it up
  5. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    Thats kinda what I was thinking too but still wanted to put it out there. I certainly wont destroy the originals as eventually I hope to build them :)
  6. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    Goes along the idea that you are allowed to create personal backup copies of your purchased software and not redistribute.
  7. k5083

    k5083 Member

    Technically, making one copy for yourself to build could be a violation, but nobody is going to complain about it if you keep the original. The publisher has sold one copy and you get to build one, so he's not damaged.

    Shoki2000 is right that if, however, you copy it for yourself to build and then sell or give away the original, that is a violation and the publisher is damaged because your copying cost him at least one sale.

    And, if you keep the original but make multiple copies and build multiple models (or build both the original and one or more copies), that also is certainly a violation and the publisher is damaged because he is entitled to demand that you buy a "kit" for each completed model that you want to build.

    These are very similar to the principles for copying software or recorded music or video. Just like you can't copy software to install it on multiple computers at once, you shouldn't build more than one copy of a single original -- unless the publisher says it's okay, as some do.

    Whether it is worth anyone's trouble to enforce their rights over such small scale infringement is another matter, but your question is about etiquette.

  8. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    yes indeed - I see your point. Food for thought!
    Thanks everyone,
  9. The people who argue vehemently about what one can/can't do because of copyright law generally know little about it :) What you're describing (repaint, scanning, etc. for YOUR use) comes under sections of copyright law called "fair use." Start distributing any of that stuff, for free or otherwise, and you come out from under that umbrella and start to break copyright laws.

    Cheers --- Larry
  10. OylPslyk

    OylPslyk Aspiring Usurper

    if piracy werent such a problem i'd put 2 cents in sayin "if you aint caught, it aint illegal." buuuut.

    as long as you dont profit I dont see why it should be a problem!!
    besides ive only purchased 1 commercial kit and the instructions flat out said that if you are concerned about how a certian portion will turn out test build it first... how else are you to do that without copying?
  11. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

    Larry's comments are very well taken, and define what little I know about the limits of use under copyright.

    Might I suggest, however, that we avoid much discussion in this area (i.e. copyright) as it is frowned upon on this forum, mostly because it tends to lead to very emotional responses not desired by the owners/admins.

    Just a thought....

  12. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    ok, thanks for the heads up squinty (if we can call you that ;) ) and happy birthday!! if I had put even a small bit of effort into searching I would have seen it has been asked before anyway..... thats what I get for posting in a hurry over lunch...
  13. nebeltex

    nebeltex Member

    "And, if you keep the original but make multiple copies and build multiple models (or build both the original and one or more copies), that also is certainly a violation and the publisher is damaged because he is entitled to demand that you buy a "kit" for each completed model that you want to build."

    unless encouraged to do so by the publisher. if you are not sure, ask!
  14. Jim Nunn

    Jim Nunn Member

    Larry succinctly stated the legal answer to your question.

    On the personal “What’s the right thing to do” question scanning a model so that you have replacement parts in case you make a mistake or even to build one model from the scan I personaly think is that’s OK.

    This question seems to be always asked from point of view of what is best for me the builder. I think we need to consider this question from the side of the publishers and designers. The publishers/designers can not be making a fortune producing these models. I would think that to produce one of the highly detailed models that it would take a designer several months to develop. If the models are being copied and no monies are going back to the publishers and designers what incentive do they have to continue to produce the models? In the end if models are freely copied there will soon be no models to build no less copy. It is good common sense not to copy and then sell the model or for that matter to make several models from one purchased kit Some exceptions do exist Chip at FG has no problems with you building several models from one kit and I believe Dan at Delta 7 also feels this way.

    As for myself I scan every model I build, I then build the model from the original kit. I do this for several reasons, I may need a replacement part, and I may want to rework a part to correct errors in the model. The reason I do not build the scan of the model is that I prefer to work with the printed kit. I am not happy with the changes in color of the scanned model and I do not like working with either laser or inkjet prints. Laser toner flakes on bent seams and the inks used in Inkjets smears and will run.

    If you have any doubts about re-coloring or reworking a model contact the publisher/ designer and ask permission. When I did the article on the Halinski Panther build I made available some additional parts to add more detail to the model. Some of these parts were based on scans and reworks of the original parts from the kit. I asked permission from Halinski to make the reworked scanned parts available to other modelers. Halinski gave me permission and seemed to have no issue with this.

    Jim Nunn
  15. DeWayne

    DeWayne Member

    Alright...I can't hold back any longer.

    As a distributor and publisher I believe in the "Buy one - build one" policy. Besides, that's the legal side of it. As a builder and kit basher, I believe you should be able to modify and build a kit as you so deem, hence, I do my best to see that my files are not locked. If a client wants to build a squadron of aircraft and has the talent to modify the files with logos and flight numbers then I have no problems with that. My personal belief is that as long as you maintain control (ownership) of the original file and do not sell or trade the modifications you have done then there can be no harm to me or the designer of the original kit. IF you decide to trade off or sell one of your modified models, you should do the correct thing and whom ever get's the modified kit (or model) should also get it all. To do anything else hurts the designer, the publisher and the distributor. End result, the hobby we love and enjoy is the ultimate loser.

    Personally I scan every model I buy. I also do not sell or trade off these kits but if I do I will either include the scanned files or delete them.

    Also, I support re-painting of a kit and as long as the designer approves, I'll make the kit available to the general public. This is a win-win proposition that promotes interest, improves skill and peaks the interest of the kit basher.

  16. speedless

    speedless Member

    As far as i know (in Denmark),anything paid for is yours.
    This includes CD`s,refrigiators,cars,programs,cardmodels...ETC.
    For PERSONALLY USE,you can make as many copies you like.
    (mayby a little hard copying cars)
    Look at many of the free downloads,FOR PERSONALLY USE ONLY!
  17. Jim seems to be correct and this topic will clearly run amok 'real soon' if it doesn't stop. I think some of you might want to consider, however, what is being sold in a cardmodel kit. Is it the design (the intellectual property) or the cardboard its printed on (a manifestation of the intellectual property). When you buy an electronic kit are you buying the electrons?

    For those interested, I write a lot of stuff commercially. I negotiate my contracts with the publishers. This is an 'interesting process as you're dealing with "ideas", "words" and "photos." You're also dealing with how the whole mess is presented by the publisher. In most cases, when the dust settles, the publisher owns 'the right to publish everything' (some caveats sometimes limit this) and they own the actual layout of those articles. I own the ideas, words and the photos. So...while I can republish or otherwise reuse my intellectual property, the publisher owns the "manifestation" of that intellectual property as it's presented in their magazine. Thus, even I, as owner of the intellectual property can't use scans of the magazine.

    So...the distinction I've suggested (IP vs manifestation of it) is more than a semantical straw man. It's recognized in courts of law, in contractual agreements, etc. It shouldn't be ignored in the cardmodel world if you're going to discuss these things. For myself, I don't want to stand near a hornets nest and don't want to upset anyone here. So I won't comment further about copyright or anything related to it.

    Cheers --- Larry
  18. Maurice

    Maurice Member

    Jim is correct, he doesn't just seem to be.

    There are other forums that relish this stuff and if you say the right things you may even be allowed to post to them.:grin:

    (just looking for takers)
  19. possm_23

    possm_23 Member

    i am a one of a kind and an original....no one may copy....sell .....barter....or trade me...i am protected....lool:-D :-D
  20. josve

    josve Active Member

    I just put my two cent's here....
    I scan all my models before I even start on them.For several reasons.
    First, I don't want to cut in the book. If I ever want to build the model again.
    Second, if I make a mistake ,I just print again and do the part over.
    Third, if a part doesn't fit, and needs scaling.I have done this several times on one of my Modelik kits that had a bad fit.
    As long as I have bought the book, and use it just for myselves, I'm not able to see any problems at all.....

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