yeah ive done the sums today bud, iused the scales at my work to weigh the materials being used in the project and the weight of the frame with the ply that is required on it = 280 pounds ... total. on top of that i will need to add the weight of te scenery inc buildings trees mountains etc anyone willing to hazard a guess at the weight of such items based on a 12 x 10 foot layout? just after a ballpark figure really...??? as for rolling stock this wont really be an issue as all loco's will have to be removed due to the nature of the layout and they would only be on the layout in its lowered form and that would be when its on its legs..... as for the room preparation, you are right it is a big job but you see when its that or nothing you cant just throw your hands in the air and say its too hard just ask my mate polo! .... Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools. Napoleon Bonaparte as for the counterweights im going to steer away from them at this stage as the winches that i have made are geared very high so i believe even under the stress of say 450 lb's i will be able to manually raise and lower the layout(ill soon find out ) i hope im not sounding like im having a go at you as im not ive appreciated everything that has been posted in here and im using it all to check that i have thought of all angles and to complete my plans with things you guys have mentioned that i had not thought of. for instance i had not put enough thought into the method i wil use as a stoper on the roof so as not to crush mountain tops also jac as you pointed out the two bolts will be a weak point and im making up a couple of plates at work that will sit over the top and bottom mountaing plates with several more bolt holes spread over a much wider distance..