Problems with Athearn CN Coaches

RobertInOntario

Active Member
I have two green CN coaches made by Athearn. I bought these new last year. Of all my rolling stock, these are the most prone to derail. They are very sensitive to any track imperfections -- if anything is likely to derail at a problem area, it's these coaches!

I recently adjusted my track and my rolling stock runs fine on my layout except for these two coaches, which is often the case. One of these CN coaches -- a shorter baggage car -- is worse than the other (which is a passenger car). The gauge of their wheels appears to be accurate. I also recently added some weights to the baggage car. But the baggage car is still giving me some problems at one area, while the passenger car runs OK.

I was wondering if anyone else has had these problems, either with Athearn products or similar CN coaches (i.e. similar green 1950s CN coaches, but made by another company)? I suspect that these coaches are quirky because they're relatively short and each have two 6-wheel trucks. Are the problems due to the manufacturer or are these simply difficult coaches to model and run on a model railway? Does anyone have any other suggestions? Thanks in advance!

Otherwise, these are fine-looking coaches and look great hauled behind my CN C-liner.
 

Russ Bellinis

Active Member
Take you trucks off the coaches and put them on a flat piece of glass. Do they sit evenly? sometimes due to whatever reason, the plastic trucks can warp. If all six wheels are not touching the glass at the same time, they won't touch the rail at the same time and will be prone to derailing. Also make sure your mounting screws are not binding the trucks in any way.
 
L

lester perry

Also make sure they are all in line. If they are in correct gauge but not in the same position on the axle they will fight against each other and derail.
Les
 

jim currie

Active Member
also make shure you don't have one axle that might be in gauge but is off set from the rest also i have had one athrean coach that the coupler pocket was not centered with the truck, assuming that there still tanglo trucks.
 

RobertInOntario

Active Member
Thanks! These all make sense and sound like good suggestions. I'll try checking to see if they're in line and also check them on the piece of glass. Rob
 

Russ Bellinis

Active Member
RobertInOntario said:
Thanks! These all make sense and sound like good suggestions. I'll try checking to see if they're in line and also check them on the piece of glass. Rob

Let us know what you find.
 

spitfire

Active Member
Good luck Robert. I hope you can fix your problem. I'm a huge fan of those green and black CN coaches.

Val
 

RobertInOntario

Active Member
spitfire said:
Good luck Robert. I hope you can fix your problem. I'm a huge fan of those green and black CN coaches.

Val

These coaches only cost about $25 each, so I'm wondering if their quality isn't up to snuff? To my eye, they look great but I realize that there are a few other companies that make this type of (green CN) coaches. Maybe I simply need to buy some better quality ones?

I just visited your website -- it looks really interesting, great pics & info!

Thanks, Rob
 

60103

Pooh Bah
Robert: for testing: do the coaches come off when you run them alone? with each other?
Is it the same place(s) each time? same end of the car? I was reading about a problem someone had with a 6-wheel car and the middle axle wasn't rising enough and the car would rock on it.
If they're the cars I'm thinking of, they came out about 1962 for $1.29 each.
 

RobertInOntario

Active Member
60103 said:
Robert: for testing: do the coaches come off when you run them alone? with each other?
Is it the same place(s) each time? same end of the car? I was reading about a problem someone had with a 6-wheel car and the middle axle wasn't rising enough and the car would rock on it.
If they're the cars I'm thinking of, they came out about 1962 for $1.29 each.

Thanks, David. Good questions. Sometimes the coaches will derail when they're being hauled but not when I push them around, which makes me wonder if their couplers are acting up. (I recently changed their couplers to Kadees but this problem still occurred before that.)

Also, the problems usually occur at the same spots. One is where a piece of flexitrack joins onto an 18" curve (settrack), and the other is at a Hornby curved switch. I recently heard that Hornby curved switches aren't the greatest and their gauge can be off. I used to have two Hornby curved switches but replaced one with a Peco. I've been reluctant to replace the other one because I've ballasted it in!

I'll check the middle axel, as you suggest. And I might have to get rid of that other Hornby curved switch, even though my other stock is running fine through it.

Thanks again.

Rob
 

MasonJar

It's not rocket surgery
I had problems with this same car (I have two) and it turned out that the wheels were out of gauge. Because they have metal axels with one plastic and one metal wheel (for lighting pick-up) it is difficult to gauge the wheel sets properly - the plastic wheel will slide on the axel, but not the metal, leaving the wheel set in gauge but off centre. This is as much of a problem as out of gauge, since it causes the car to "crab" (move sideways) down the track.

Ultimately the solution was new P2K wheel sets. If I want to light them later, I will do it with a battery.

Andrew
 
I'm sure you've tried it, but when this happens to me, the first thing I do is reverse the car, which changes both wheels AND coupler in the lead.

Lynn
 

RobertInOntario

Active Member
MasonJar said:
I had problems with this same car (I have two) and it turned out that the wheels were out of gauge. Because they have metal axels with one plastic and one metal wheel (for lighting pick-up) it is difficult to gauge the wheel sets properly - the plastic wheel will slide on the axel, but not the metal, leaving the wheel set in gauge but off centre. This is as much of a problem as out of gauge, since it causes the car to "crab" (move sideways) down the track.

Ultimately the solution was new P2K wheel sets. If I want to light them later, I will do it with a battery.

Andrew

Thanks, Andrew. Interesting!! especially since you have the same cars. I'll look into this. Are P2K wheel sets readily available from hobby shops and, if so, are they expensive? Thanks again, Rob
 

RobertInOntario

Active Member
yellowlynn said:
I'm sure you've tried it, but when this happens to me, the first thing I do is reverse the car, which changes both wheels AND coupler in the lead.

Lynn

Thanks, Lynn. I have occasionally tried this and the most "troublesome" of the 2 coaches, the baggage car, often does run better in one direction. This might suggest that the wheels could be out of alignment.

I'm going to check their gauge again as well as their alignment. I also might look into replacing them with P2K wheels as Andrew suggests. Thanks again, Rob
 

MasonJar

It's not rocket surgery
Rob,

The Proto2000 (P2K) wheels are not that expensive, and should be available at your favourite train shop. If not, contact Dave Cool at Canadian Express Line (www.canadianexpressline.com). His web site is out of date, but his mail order business is great. He has good prices, as long as you don't order one package of wheels at a time... ;) :D

He also attends various shows across Quebec, New York, and Ontario (based in Montreal). So you may see him here or there...

Andrew
 

RobertInOntario

Active Member
MasonJar said:
Rob,

The Proto2000 (P2K) wheels are not that expensive, and should be available at your favourite train shop. If not, contact Dave Cool at Canadian Express Line (www.canadianexpressline.com). His web site is out of date, but his mail order business is great. He has good prices, as long as you don't order one package of wheels at a time... ;) :D

He also attends various shows across Quebec, New York, and Ontario (based in Montreal). So you may see him here or there...

Andrew

Thanks, Andrew! I'll first check 1-2 hobby shops here ... I may contact Dave as well.
 
L

lester perry

As far as the center wheel set not moving enough that is easy to check. Just take it out of the truck and run it. If you problem goes away the central axle is the problem.
Les
 

60103

Pooh Bah
Robert:
You will probably find that the Hornby switch is incompatible with NMRA wheels. I think they've improved them over the last 40 years, but they were designed for wheels to a bit narrower gauge than NMRA. If you're running older Hornby, this may be necessary (but there are compatibility problems). I've had to glue plastic strips onto the flangeways to make them narrower. (but I find they can detach themselves)
 
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