Discussion in 'Off Topic - Card Modeler Lounge' started by Zathros, Jun 1, 2012.

  1. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    I am going to use my position of Moderator this one time, to post a story, and not have someone knock it down, because of their position.

    I had my identity stolen through Paypal, and I have never had a Paypal account. $16,000 dollars( by the time it was all done), in one afternoon, in a 4 hr. period, by some one in a South American country,(country doesn't matter because it's done everywhere). I only mention it because I live on a different continent.

    Paypal was useless. As my wife works for a very large Bank, we were able to throw her weight behind it, and within 10 hrs., the debt was removed, but the hassle remained for 3 or 4 days.

    Well, it almost happened again, but I was able to nip it in the bud, again, not because of anything Paypal did, but because my bank just dismissed the charges, and left Paypal holding the bag. I still do not, and will never have a Paypal account.

    Some businesses are now saying they accept Mastercard and Visa, through Paypal. I would strongly advise that you either set up a card you can add to and throw away if you tie it to Paypal.

    That does not indemnify you though, and in reality, you could still find yourself owing money, and spending a lot to prove you didn't spend any in the first place.

    Anyone wishing to throw in an opinion is more than welcome. I know many, people who use Paypal for massive purchases, and have NEVER had a problem.

    I also know many people who have gotten nailed by Paypal. I also know many businesses that are moving away from Paypal, as people return things they obviously used, but then no longer needed, and returned them. It's a two way street.

    I am not allowing any person with a business relating to this hobby to post in this thread.

    Only members in good standing. Only people with actual experiences, good or bad, and members who may use Paypal in their business, as long as it is not related to this Hobby.

    I personally think that the good and convenience from Paypal probably outweighs the bad, but until their customer service matches the scale of business they do, be careful. This shotgun approach leaves many people hurting.
  2. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    Wow!! That's a kicker. Mr brother in law as sold some big ticket stuff, more than two grand, and he never got held up? I think that's to squeeze and collect interest rates. That's a big problem because EBAY and Paypal have tied the financial not.

    If I want something off of EBAY, I research the seller, and inevitably find the email address. I only (mostly) buy local. I then set up a meeting, and every time, I have purchased the goods, saving much time and effort.

    I spoke to the owner of Wisconsin cycle salvage, He had an stock exhaust system for my bike that looked almost new. It was listed at $299. I called them up, after Googling their phone number. After explaining that I had one of those bikes, (1983 GS 750ES) that I purchased new, I noticed this exhaust, and also noticed that it had been listed with a pile of other parts for almost two years. He asked how would I pay for it. I said I could send a cashiers check, or a regular check,and he could send it when it cleared, or MasterCard or Visa. He said if I sent a regular check, and waited, he would give it to me for $75.00 dollars, and pay form the shipping! Of course, what's what I did. He ended sending the exhaust the day he got the check, it was even better than the pictures.

    WisconsinCycleSalvage, excellent, honest, decent people to deal with.

    This guy at the aforementioned business told me that he was constantly getting ripped off by people who were using Paypal. They would return parts, which were obviously the broken ones he replaced, and Paypal would just charge his account. He was getting ready to drop Paypal because of that. That is not fear to businesses.

    If I went to purchase something, card model, tools, whatever, and they told me I would have to pay 3% extra because that was what they were charged, I would have no problem with that. That is what I did in my business. If a customer gave me a check, no problem, no charge. Plastic, you pay pay the fee, I have no problem paying that, my customers never protested. I also was the only electronics repair shop within 50 miles radius so they were happy just getting their stuff repaired. Many came back with cash. Won't go there except to say there is a large underground economy in this country. There are some online card model companies using Paypal. They say they now accept Mastercard and Visa, but knowing that Paypal is handling the transaction, no way. Which really isn't good because on the average $10.00 dollar model, what's .030 cents, nothing. I would not hesitant knowing a regular established bank was handling the transaction, but I would never give my credit card to Paypal or a business that relied on Paypal to handle their transactions..

    I would again emphasize that I realize most people do not have these problems. I almost considered trying to set up a Paypal account, but when I got that notice last week, and then called my bank, and told them what was happening, they advised me against doing so. Since my accounts are covered. They dealt with what Paypal did, and did not allow Paypal access to anything with my name on it. Again, Paypal was left holding the bag.

    To this day, I have never had a Paypal account, and twice, someone has succeeded in setting up a Paypal account in my name, but Paypal ended up having to cover the balance, which means,of course, it will be passed down the line.

    I have an account in my Bank since the 19070. They have always provided the best service. I watched them grow from a local town bank, to the largest in Connecticut. They were privately owned till two years ago. They have no exposure to any of the bad real estate, or derivatives market. Good business practice pays off. They have tons of cash but received no "bailout" or "Tarp" money. They have money because they are real venture capitalist, and they are now aggressive to finance nationally. That is a rarity in a bank. They don't give you an instant "No", they set you up with a loans salesperson, who helps you formulate an offer, and helps you see if you have something worth investing in.

    I think it's important in an economy to deal with he local entity that will reinvest back into your locality. I just don't see that aspect in the Paypal paradigm.

    One of Paypal's founders, Elon Musk, cashed out and got $200 million for it. A true venture capitalist, he is now sitting high on Space X's successful Dragon capsule docking. I wish him the best. This kind of real business is work, real work, they country needs.
  3. Patron_zero

    Patron_zero Member

    My wife and her best-girlfriend have a presence on eBay and have PayPal handle 99% of their transactions, that said (knock on wood) have not encountered the level of difficulty described above.

    I/we do frequently encounter the degree of bullheadedness as Ekuth so noted, both has occurred with eBay And PayPal on different occasions but with CSRs in general. Do not get me started on AT&T-U-verse or AT&T in general.

    My take is these people have a laminated 'cheat-sheet' with five basic responses-inquiries they refer to regardless of the customer's question or problem. Beyond that most are clueless about how to resolve an issue or simply don't give a gold-gilded frog's backside about said customer's needs.

    Oh, eBay and PayPal are far from perfect and not taking their defense in any way but sadly it's about the only game out there, it's a system and sometimes it works.
  4. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    Paypal is by far not the only game, and if you bought into that, you've been duped. There are far better methods, it's called your bank and Mastercard, Visa, American Express, DiscoverCard, and every other credit card, check or cashiers check. EBAY purchased PayPal. They have a vested interest in having you use it. I do not patronize businesses that use Paypal, and I get everything I need and find I pay less than people I know who always ask me where did I buy the components for the computers I fix, the tooling for my shop. ebay and Paypal are not the only game unless you are talking about using eBAY and Paypal. I rarely purchase anything from eBAY. I mentioned in the first post the methodology I use for finding the seller's emails and deal with them directly. I have never met a person who was not willing and happy to work outside of eBAY and Paypal. I made a killing on almost a whole Suzuki b going to the guys house and buying everything he had, instead of the carbs only, instead of $125, Ipaid $250, and that was for most of the bike.

    There are other places to purchase goods and other ways to purchase them. They are not even close to being the only game, and unless you are buying something that you absolutely cannot find anywhere else, you will probably pay more for it on eBAY.

    I use Craigslist, a lot. Better, more accurate, and more local listings than eBAY.

    As far as AT&T, I have a bundle with them and no one can match the price I pay for 3 cell phones, unlimited long distance land line, DSL, and DIshNetwork. No one can come close, no even within $100 bucks close (a month!) I live in Connecticut, and here, because I know services differ according to your geographic location, I have found AT&T to be the best. I have friends in New York City that have a completely different experience though. They get dropped calls and pay a lot more. This is something I have heard about all these companies, all 3 or 4 of them, how ever few that are left.
  5. tjbmurph

    tjbmurph Member

    I had an issue with a product/seller on ebay and when they wouldn't respond to my repeated requests for even a reply, I opened a dispute with PayPal. They were the ones who actually resolved my issue. From the sounds of things, either I got lucky or you're very unlucky. Could it be because I use the Canadian site? Either way, I'm going to be more vigilant in the future. Thanks for the heads up; we tend to get to complacent with technology and forget the very real risks involved...
  6. PayPal is an interesting enigma in the financial industry. Though it functions much like a bank, it isn't regulated as one and, in my opinion, it very much needs some sort of oversight from outside.

    You are right about the customer service issues, Zath. Your experience with identity theft sounds nightmarish. My guess is that someone somehow came into a copy of a check of yours and used your bank numbers to funnel money through PayPal.

    My first issues with them came a few years ago. I let them talk me into giving them my bank acct info in the guise of "verification". I happened to make several eBay purchases in the next couple of months and I realized instead of using my credit card, PayPal had switched the default payment method to a bank draft and wouldn't let me change that. At that point I realized the "verify" thing was just a ruse.

    I've had better luck with PayPal as an eBay seller (not of paper models). Though I greatly dislike them, if you want to sell on eBay, you're pretty much tied to them and eBay remains the easiest way for the average person to sell something internationally online. Needless to say, I always get my money out quick.

    I did recently remove my bank account info from PayPal. They quickly set things up so that I can't make PayPal purchases at all anymore, even though I was "verified" at the same address for many years as a seller. I don't really care, though. I'm aiming toward a point where I can disassociate with them entirely.
  7. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    Just for the record. I had just opened a new Credit Card with my bank with the purpose of using it for ordering, thinking it would be easier to follow. I used that card twice. One, a local Auto Palace., and I placed a phone order for a bunch of electronic parts. The number was stolen and sold by an employee of that company. I contacted that company and explained the situation to the owner. The employee was arrested by the F.B.I., as this was interstate theft. This is an ISO9001 company that sells military grade equipment. Having only used that card twice and those being the only time I ever used that new Mastercard, Paypal had allowed someone in Brazil to open an account, charge almost $14000 dollars worth of goods, never verifying any information. My bank said that because of the way this happened, they we able to really go after Paypal. I stated, and will restate, I have never had a Paypal account. This is the thing that gets me. I hear more stories from people like me that have never had Paypal accounts, than from people who actually have Paypal accounts!

    My bank said it actually helped them clear up a lot of cases that had been "fudged" by Paypal. My bank advised it's customers not to use Paypal as it is an insecure system. This is the largest bank in Connecticut.

    I think that as consumers, if we pressure the companies we do business with to just accept our Credit Cards, cut out this in between usurper, then the businesses will respond. I also am willing to pay the 3% extra for the privilege and security, of using my own Credit card from my own bank.

    I would order more models from some online venders if they disassociated themselves with Paypal.

    I think they would do more business. I feel that doing business with any outfit should give one the feeling that they are dealing with Sears, Tractor Supply,, etc., not some "almost-a-business" outfit that can't exist without Paypal.
  8. Trek Builder 2012

    Trek Builder 2012 New Member

    Years ago I was selling Specialty Star Trek Items I made on Ebay. I had a 100% rating on ebay, and had been with them for years. So when I got a large order, I would do the multiple lots on ebay, suddenly they put a hold on my account and required me to ship first, then they would release payment. At that point, at least paypal showed the money, just on hold. I could never get any one by phone, but did manage to chat with them through their (I forget what it was called) small chat pop up window. After getting no where with them, I informed them I would not ship to Germany, (cost coming out of my pocket first) until they released the funds.
    Next day, the holds were removed, because the funds were gone. The orders were never canceled, and I soon started to get complaints that people were waiting for my products that they paid for. After contacting Ebay, they insisted that I was paid, and they would suspend my account if I did not ship right away.
    The end result was paypal denying there ever were any transaction, Ebay insisted I was paid, and I closed both accounts. I do not know if my lost buyers ever got their money from Paypal. That cost me a loss of the $700 from those transactions, and lost business until I found another way to sell.
  9. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    I have heard this before. This also shows the arbitrary problem with Paypal. In you had been able to arrange for a different payment method, then proof would have to be established. EBAY should allow people to transfer funds into a bank's account, then there is proof, either way, where any money went, or didn't go. This is the problem with eBAY and PAYPAL and the Federal Trade Commission should dissolve this relationship!
  10. Trek Builder 2012

    Trek Builder 2012 New Member

    I have heard many people say that the government should regulate them. I agree. I wonder if they are based here in the US though.
  11. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    They are located in San Jose California. All business is regulated. It is the type of regulation and the poor service that is the issue.
  12. THE DC

    THE DC Member

    Be VERY careful about suggesting ANY wrong from the temple of eBay!!!!
  13. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

  14. Fin

    Fin New Member

    A bit late, but I wanted to mention my own experience with Paypal.

    I never actually got my account completely set up. I had a question about the verification of Canadian bank accounts. Not wanting to ask a question that was already answered, I pored through the FAQs, with no luck. I then wrote to them with my single question ... and didn't get an answer.

    So I waited, and waited... and never got an answer. After about a year, they sent an email saying the account's verifications were about to expire, or some such thing. I closed the account. An automated email asked if I would kindly explain why, and if I would recommend their services to others. I answered "Why on earth would I recommend your financial services to anyone, when you couldn't answer a single question about an account, in a year?"

    They wrote back immediately, offering to help, but at that point I had heard enough horror stories about them.

    If I'm thinking of buying or selling something, I check out Kijiji. It's free and local.
  15. aleks

    aleks Member

    my two cents...

    I set up my paypal account with a pre-paid card. Usually I put on the card the amount I'm going to spend in a couple of days. I do this occasionally and I've never had problems (You may argue why the exchange rate from Euro to Dollars is different from the "official" but this is not the question).
    I got a problem with account verification and card expiration but a couple of email fixed the problem in two days.
    Only once I used paypal to receive a payment, but I preferred to spend the money (about 15 $ ;-) ) rather to give my bank details to Paypal. By the way, I do not spend all that money... after a week the remainder was disappear ... but it could be my fault.

    I don't think I will ever be in the need to set up a complete Paypal account to receive payments.
    I prefer to contact sellers and buyers personally.
  16. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    If you knew how many times I have heard from people about these amounts that seem to "disappear", and ow no one has the answer, well it shocked me.

    I also know many, and I mean many, people who use Paypal and NEVER have any problems.

    When I want to buy something from EBAY, I look up the sellers name, and then go into their past and eventually find the sellers email. I send themoff an email and ask if they would wish to deal privately off of EBAY. Since usually, I buy local, the answer is yes. on most of the other merchandise, they turn out to be businesses that accept master card, and i can deal with them and theyhave all beenhappy to cut EBAY and PayPal out of the process.

    The flip side to this is is that many people screw over the businesses using Paypal. These businesses get back different items, or the same item broken. PayPal then rescinds the payment and the dealer is left holding the bag.

    I buy a lot of automotive parts, and motorcycle parts. T he people send back the old automotive part claiming that it was substandard. This is a common practice. You will almost always get a better deal if you can find the seller and deal with that person privately. that has been my experience. Wisconsin Cycle Salvage is a clear example. They really wheel and deal if you call up their business instead of going through PayPal. That is why the picture of their business has the phone number painted on the roof!! :)

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