Oldies but Goodies. The Old Stuff.

Discussion in 'HO Scale Model Trains' started by toptrain1, Jan 4, 2007.

  1. toptrain1

    toptrain1 Member

    A True Scale.JPG Here is a old True Scale, western Union tail end car.
  2. toptrain1

    toptrain1 Member

    PRR 0-6-0.JPG My old die cast 0-6-0t saddle tanker sold by Aristo-Craft.
  3. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    What cool stuff! I have One of those ture scale cars , but had no Idea what it was. When I was in High school in Atlanta Ga, I had a friend Rick Perry, who also modeled a logging RR. We used to disagree as to whose outfit was the most disreutable. Rick took one of those true scale cars, painted it for the Hurtsburo and Yellow hill RR co. supply car. and left it on the spur to my Rr's junk pile to imply that his RR used what my Rr threw out.

    He scored massive points, but I still have the Hurtsbourough and Yellow hill Rr's supply car. it is at the club now, so it will be a while beore I can post a picture.
  4. toptrain1

    toptrain1 Member

    Bill They were made by True Scale, then Trainminiature, now Walters. The original True Scale were orange, TM had green, maroon, and gray sets. Walters made the yellow sets so I have my previous post wrong. Should say TM not TS.
  5. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    a_ken_kidder_2_6_0a1.jpg I am finishing up the work on this Ken Kidder Porter Mogul. My Mom admired this in a hobby shop when I was about 13, Dad bought it for her, and she kept it on her jewelry box. forty five years later, I ran it through my shops, improver the electrical pick up, and remotored it. the white visible under the boiler is a shim to keep the gear box from skewing in reverse. I need to paint that black, also I think the tender trucks need to be red I repainted it with semi gloss spraypaint, and did the other colors with a brush using craft store acryics
  6. toptrain1

    toptrain1 Member

    Bill the hobby is missing lower cost, less detailed locomotive's as Ken Kidder provided in the past. You can add details to make the look you wanted. That mogul may be one of the engines made for the Spartan series of basic locomotives.
  7. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    Far East Distributors disaster series caboose, this would be a valuable colectors item, had I not straightened it up, repainted it to cover up the ******** awful oarnge/red paint with fingerprints,, and siscarded the box. it is built from very heavy brass, and weighs a ton.

    this is an On3 NWSL Spartain series Baldwin 8-18c 4-4-0 The sand dome has been replaced with a more correct one by the previous owner It is awaiting the rest of it's details. I want to go full bore 1880 with this, I habe many brass detail castings for this, but need a good woodburning stack and a oil lamp. I have to do a lot of research to figure out the proper placement for all the details.

    Frank, I'm just assuming the Porter Mogul is a Ken Kidder unit, I have no box or paper trail, but it looks just like one. I understand they also imported an HOn3 version, which I would love, but have never seen This came into my Mom's posession in the early 1960's. It has a brass frame pilot, and the air pump is a brass casting for an air pump, with the pipingjmn The Spartain series was imported in the early 70's by Fart East Distributors, which was a division of Northwest Short Line. NWSL imported a logging caboose, they used an untried Korean builder, and they came out Horrible. NWSL did not want to market them under thier own name, so they created FED, and marketed the caboose as "The Disaster series" I bought one and repainted it. they came factory painted, but at the factory they hand dipped them in a vat of oarnge paint. the cabooses had finger prints in the paint.

    I bought one, but sadly I was shortsited, and did not preserve the factory paint and the box. I even straighted out some of the crooked features and put mine into service. Later NWSL came up with the idea of the Spartan series. The HOn3 Spartains were low detail, with pot metal frames, cylkinders, pilots, and simplifierd details. the air pumps, for instance, were brass turnings, rather than castings, and had no plumbing represented. The HON3 sparteains were marketed under the FED label

    The On3 spartains were a horse of another color. to my knowlege, they just did a 4-4-0, and it was designed to be a highly detailed model of a Baldwin 18-18c, which as I misunderstand the Baldwin numbering system, was a # foot gauge 18 ton locomotive, built to their #18 drawing set. These locomotives were comon, and yet many details varried. to Keep the cost down NWSL left the stack, headlight, air pump, piping off, figuring that folks could get one, and detail to suit whatever prototype they were interested in. The On3 model was of a quality that alowed NWSL to put their I purchased one with a big stack of brass details, but I need to get a different stack and headlight and do a boatload of reserch as to what goes where before starting to solder anything on

    The On3 spartain 4-4-0 is notable, as it is one of only three models ever imported. Max Grey imported a model of a similar 4-4-0, detailed for the D & R G. These were imported early, in the early 60's or so . These are seldom seen for sale. Till recently I had not seen one for sale , I saw one for sale last week, and the check is in the mail. The other On3 4-4-0 was imported by presision scale, and had a ridiculous amount of detail on them, I've never seen one for sale, but they cost over a grand new.

    I feel a little crazy buying two On3 4-4-0s while in the midst of my Ho RR rebuild, but these are rare. Most On3 modelers model the last days of colorado narow gauge, The early small locomotives are what interests me, there has never been much a market for the little locomotives, so not many were imported. those that have been go into collections never to be seen again, so seing two for sale, after looking for over 20 years, I figured I needed to get them when I could. don't know if they will be used for more than mantle piece locomotives, but I would like to put some Tsunami light steam decoders in them.

    Bill Nelson
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
  8. toptrain1

    toptrain1 Member

    Bill your caboose has a look all its own. Anyone over 5' would not want to be assigned to a train with that caboose . The 4-4-0 has some small drivers. I am thinking in HO and not O scale. A Ho loco that can easily be used on a On30 road is a Revell 0-6-0t. If you are familiar with the loco you would know why. just need different couplers.
  9. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    That On3 4-4-0 does have small drivers, similar to my HOn3 american, except ithe O scale version is put together better, and in the larger scale that allows better detail. If I had one of those revel 0-6-0s I'd be studying the mechanism to see if I could replace the axels and reguage it to On3. I have a cheaply done static O scale brass model of one of the first steam locomotives imported to Japan, a porter mogul. The Japaese narrow gauge was 42 inches, the model I have has no provision for gears, ir even dissasembaly of the frame, and the axles are not insulated, so the hurdles for usiong the existing wheels and frame are quite large.

    The caboose is a model of a logging caboose, that looked pretty strange. that photo shows how badly I need to vacum the log pond in Crooked Creek.. I'm getting close to wiring several new blocks; If I do so I mey get tempted to vacum up a lot of the construction dust, and run some trains.

    Bill Nelson
  10. toptrain1

    toptrain1 Member

    Well Bill if you have time, Go for it! Get out the vacuum and do the stuff needed to get the layout going. A little play time may be very relaxing.
  11. toptrain1

    toptrain1 Member

    A old HO Lionel Santa Fe. Passenger train with FA1, FB1, coach, 3 dome cars, Observation.

    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
    Sanginus likes this.
  12. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member


    My recent crazed aquizition, an On3 Max Gery 4-4-0 from the 1960's it has awesome detail, although much of it needs repair. the drivers are sprung,, and it has working Stevenson valve gear. I am working to smooth out it's mechanism, and will try to see if I can replace the ancient huge open frame motor with a more efficient can motor. I will convert it to a woodburner, and back date it to oil lighting.
  13. toptrain1

    toptrain1 Member

    Well Bill another nice brass locomotive. It is old one with the vertical shaft motor in the loco cab. Aristo Craft used them in a lot of their locomotives during the same time period. Almost looks like a HO loco with nothing along side to reference size to. Congratulations for the good find.
  14. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member


    So you know it's not Ho, here it is with a mantua general. note the General is a standard gauge locomotive, and is a considerably larger locomotive than the narrow gauge baldwin 4-4-0.

  15. toptrain1

    toptrain1 Member

    A nice comparison Bill. Really stands out.
  16. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    I thought about using my Hon3 baldwin 8-18-c as a comparason, as it is the same locomotive in Ho scale; but I used the Matua General, as I figured more folks would know how big it is.
  17. CNE Runner

    CNE Runner New Member

    As a senior model railroader ('sounds much better than 'old'), I remember those kits and layouts of days gone by. Strangely it is not with much nostalgia. How many of you remember the old Athearn "Hi-F" drive units? The "Hi-F" drive consisted of a shaft coming off the motor and rubber bands transferring the power to the drive trucks. The drive system worked OK when the bands were new, but fell short of the mark as they aged (or broke). [At the time I wore braces and those little rubber bands were a perfect match for my Athearn "Hi-F" drive bands.] Like many of us 'senior members' I started in the hobby with a Lionel set. As my interest waned in the mid-1950s (prior to cars and girls...not necessarily in that order), a move was made to HO. My first HO locomotive was Athearn's Lil' Hustler - which can best be described as a guided missile on rails as there was basically two speeds: stop and go like heck. [I still have that same locomotive.] Ah, the days of cardstock boxcar sides, Zamac-cast underframes, brass rail, Atlas "Snap Switches" and early flex-track that had fiber ties that were stapled on brass rail. Have things changed! [Lord, I remember using bird cage gravel for ballast!]

    One cannot compare the quality, detail and running ability of today's product offerings to those of yesteryear. The downside of this improvement is that we have raised the bar on our expectations. It is not uncommon for a hobbyist to look askance at the old Athearn blue box kits with their molded-on ladders and grab irons. It is my opinion that, even today''s toy set quality, is light years ahead of the products in the 1950s. My cheapest current locomotive (a Bachmann 45-Ton GE) runs far superior to my meager collection of brass locomotives. And how wonderful is DCC?

    All this progress comes at a price. Gone are the days of the craftsman as most products are now Ready to Run. Many of the old time kit manufacturers no longer offer kits (MDC/Roundhouse being an example). It appears that today's hobbyist wants instant gradification...some even PAY someone to design (and build) their layouts. It must be pointed out that model railroading has always been all inclusive. There is room for those who want that instant gratification I mentioned earlier - as well as those of us who ascribe to a more craftsmanlike approach. There are a lot of talented people out 'there' and our hobby exhibits that well.

  18. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    When I was in High School, a friend Brent Vinson used to re work those rubber band drives, wrapping electrical tape around the axle to increase it's diameter ( I think that's what he did) , and using orthodontist rubber bands. He had a Hustler that was painfully slow. He liked Alcos and Baldwins, and scratchbuilt Alco and Baldwin shells to run on Atheren Chasis. he built the shells out of cardboard. some of the old guys at the club made fun of his work, but it was pretty awesome.
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
  19. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    Bill, that train is beautiful. It could be in a museum!!
  20. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    A#1 On3 4-4-0s w Nesmith stacksa1a.jpg

    My goal with these locomotives was to get them as close to the 1880's look of a Baldwin woodburning 18-18c (Baldwin had this numbering system, the 18-18c was a three foot gauge 18 ton, built according to thier drawing card #18) These were once very common locomotives, one has been restored to operating condition here is a link to a video

    It took me a while to find the appropriate stacks. these awesome stacks are made by Keith Weisman, and Weisman model service. he has an awesome assortment of details and kits, and also produced the antlers, which will be a nice touch. I have a headlight bracket on the Max Gray unit, I bought two in case I decide I want that detail to match. I thought I had found some etched brass O scale Baldwin builder and number plate sets, but sadly the man who made them has retired. This will be a big project, as I have a lot of detainls to solder on to the NWSL Spartan unit to the left. they are photographed on my work bench where I have been working on the Montgomery Iron works for my Ho operations bottom shelf.

    I plan to try to purchase some On3 flex track, so i can determine a minimum radius for this pair. most likely they will be mantle pieces though.


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