Ok, thinking of a harbor deal, but....

Discussion in 'Track Planning' started by SteamerFan, Feb 4, 2005.

  1. SteamerFan

    SteamerFan Member

    Here's the catch, I saw an add for an HO scale frieghter and tanker:


    Now here's the delemia, do i do a frieghter operations or a tanker operations dock. either way it'll be 1930's and I'm having a hard time finding any info on how dock operations worked in the 1930's with a rail system. I'm thinking, since these are so long (5'6" and almost 6'), that they'd be put parallell to the backdrop and in a corner.

    I'm thinking, if i go freighter, i can use more rolling stock, put 2 cargo transfer parallell to the ship and a small sorting yard in front of that (or in front of the ship). If i go tanker, I'm limited to Tank Cars, would have to put some tanks near the ship, and still use the same basic 2 track and yard system as the frieghter. Although i could get away with other rolling stock and say they're for other ships in a different stall.

    Idea's welcome on this.
  2. Russ Bellinis

    Russ Bellinis Active Member

    The freighter is the type used to haul Iron ore from the Great Lakes I think. I think they also hauled coal in similar freighters. Either type of ore dock would look similar I think. A few years ago someone modeled an ore dock in either Model Railroader or Railroad Model Craftsman. I think it was in Model Railroader, probably about 10 years ago. The ore dock was not unlike a coal tipple under the tracks with chutes that could be directed to fill the various holds in the ship. I'm not sure how modern those ships are, or what a bulk ore freighter would look like in 1930.
  3. SteamerFan

    SteamerFan Member

    Russ, the discription says "patterned after ships built in the 1920s, ‘30s and ‘40s", and yea, I know the friegther is more ore/coal orientated and was a great lakes version. but some minor modifications and it can look like a general cargo freighter as well.

    they have it shown here: http://www.historicrail.com/historicrail/product_info.po?ID=7740&product=models with the ore chutes. And have the Ore Chutes themselves here: http://www.historicrail.com/historicrail/product_info.po?ID=4503&product=models.

    But everyone does coal on their layouts, I figured either the oil or general frieght would be cool and doing it at a port yard would be better. just thought the ships would be a nice addition, just not sure of what i want to do for the layout of it yet, but working on it. I do have a stretch that's 24' in length that this would be agreat centerpeice to.
  4. capt_turk

    capt_turk Member

    Don't forget tug and barge operations. They are much smaller and take up much less room. Steam tugs were moving all kinds of frieght quite some time before powered ships were, and still do today. Just make the barge out of wood and you have the type for that time period. The tug would be single screw, rounded front pilothouse, and straight stack for steam. Google Railroad tugs should get you plenty of pics for the tug. Most were 100' and under. Barges for that time period were usually about 125' long, 25' wide, and 8-10' hull depth.
  5. Nscalemodeler

    Nscalemodeler Member

  6. SteamerFan

    SteamerFan Member

    Greta Jeremy, those images do show I'm on the right track for designing a Port the way I was thinking. And i found Historic information on a Tanker built in 1921: http://www.cinms.nos.noaa.gov/shipwreck/dbase/montebello_2.html for ocean going operations, and studing the data and pictures, the only difference between it and the lake version is the design of the ForeCastle (and minor differences on the aftcastle).

    using the sits Jremy put up, i can think in more clear terms. Since I'm thinking SP in the 30's, I can do the Oil aspect. Just model one of the many grain docks and replace the grain silo's with Oil Storage tanks. Definatly means that 24' stretch i have will become an oil depot dock on one end and a yard with servicing on the other. would make an interesting switching section, especially if i use the yard and a general classification yard as well.
  7. brakie

    brakie Active Member

    Huh,Guys,The lakers also haul grain,sand,gravel,chemicals,fuels and coke.Also ocean vestals ply the Great Lakes.These ships haul,grain,coal,coke,iron ore and bring in general freight from other countries.Ocean vestals enter the Great Lakes by the St.Lawrence seaway.
    Don't forget the Great Lakes shipping season usually ends in November/ December if Lakes Superior,Michigan and Huron start to freeze.Also found on the Great Lakes is lake barges..
  8. Ralph

    Ralph Remember...it's for fun!

    The second freighter pictured in your post looks more contemporary to me...much like those that I still observe coming through the Duluth canal during summer trips up there.
  9. SteamerFan

    SteamerFan Member

    Ralph, the first is the tanker, a bit shorter and a little different design.

    Yes Larry, I understand they carried (and still carry) any sort of bulk cargo, although not sure if they carried General Cargo (odd sized crates and other items) before the advent of stacks and uniformed cargo controls. I think General cargo would have been regulated to the barges in the lake regions.

    And actually, i'm thinking more of a gulf port in the 1930's, but finding realistic ships in HO scale is rough (not to mention in anything pre-modern), I figure could take one of these and modify it to look more deep sea worthy. although looking at the picture of the Montebello, there's really not much difference, other than the design of the castles and maybe the bow possibly being more pointed.
  10. Russ Bellinis

    Russ Bellinis Active Member

    Having worked in the harbor, I would mention that modern container ships have trains coming right on dock to pick up containers. In the old days with break bulk ships, the ships would be off loaded into a warehouse. The train's siding would be on the other side of the warehouse. Truck trailers would be backed up to a loading dock frequently being parked on the tracks. It would make a very interresting modeling scene. The shipping terminal I worked at in Los Angeles Harbor had an old warehouse next to a slip. The dock between the warehouse and the ship was about 12-15 feet wide. The warehouse was of the design that had a cupola running full length in the center of the roof sort of like a clerestory roof in a passenger car. I think Bachmann makes a warehouse kit similar to it. We then had a strange looking crane that had two legs on the ship side of the dock running on a rail, but the back leg was shorter and actually ran on a rail mounted on the roof of the warehouse between the clerestory and the ship. The result was the trucks on the front legs of the crane were at dock height while the trucks on the back legs were 10-12 feet in the air on top of the warehouse. The crane was set up so that they could install a spreader to handle containers, or remove the spreader and install a cargo net to unload break bulk ships. Unfortunately, the warehouse was torn down, the crane dismantled and sold, and the slip filled in to make more space for container operations before I thought to take any pics.
  11. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

    That offset leg crane sounds like just the thing. I'll have to remember that one.
    Hey, it's different!
  12. capt_turk

    capt_turk Member

    There were a number of docks years ago that used that type of dock crane. Most are gone now, replaced by the larger gantry cranes that all four legs run on tracks on the dock.
  13. SteamerFan

    SteamerFan Member

    OK, i think i got the basic Idea now, Let's see if this seems decent:


    This is just the one General Goods Dock I decided to do, based on your info and some other photo's i found of active systems. Would love tyo find a picture of that strange crane, that would be a great scratch builder. And I still have yet to tie this in with other aspects, but consider it more like a 6'6" long module :p .

    As you can see, the warehouse is 1' x 4', making it a scratch building project itself. the bottom part, by the access road, would be the truck terminals, probably only about 6 of them.

    So, comments, suggestions, ideas for further review?
  14. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

    Just got the latest issue of MR, check out the article on trains and ships! The freighter model is a ship modelers dream!

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