NOAA fisheries vessel

Discussion in 'Ship & Watercraft Models' started by lizzienewell, Aug 28, 2006.

  1. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

    I went to the Alaska State Fair yesterday and NOAA fisheries enforcement had a booth with one of their boats on display.
    I might work up to making a model. Doing an elevation seems the best first step. I'd did this drawing based on the photos that I took.


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  2. thewoodengraver

    thewoodengraver Active Member

    Hi Lizzie,
    I really like that. Maybe you could share the kit when you are done?
    Look forward to seeing it anyway!
  3. milenio3

    milenio3 Active Member

    Looks great from the begining!

    I haven't see that kind of ship models around the forum. Maybe yours would be the first.
  4. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

    I did a bit of research. It's an Almar RAIV. Almar pioneered combining pontoons with aluminium and their results are better Zodiak's. Almar's website didn't seem all that friendly to those interested in models. Most of the photos and drawing were set up in a why that I couldn't download them or print them out large enought to see well. I suspect that they either want to avoid other boat manufactures copying their design or since these boats are commonly used in law enforcements they are trying to keep the design out of the hands of criminals.
    I did print out the specs so that I can get the length to beam preportions right. If I build it I'll try to make it in the same scale as my other vessels and so can play cops and fish rustlers with them.

    What is the ethics and legality of making a model of a commericially sold vehical/craft? I assume that as long as I don't sell the models I'm in no danger of violating copywrite or trademark. I suppose I could put the brandnames as PAVE, and Funrun, and Evendude.

    For those of you who do sell model kits, how do you handle permission? Do you ask for permission from the manufactures of vehicals/craft? If you do, how do you approach them?

  5. thewoodengraver

    thewoodengraver Active Member

    Ethically, I think it is free advertising for them so where's the wrong? Especially if it is free.

    My take on it is this; as long as it is offered free AND credit is given where credit is due, there is no violation.

    If you intend to sell it then yes, you need to get permission from the copyright holder.
  6. Kevin G

    Kevin G Member

    The first step I would take is to contact the manufacturer. They may just surprise you and might be able to supply you with some more information.
    As far as hiding things from criminals..I have experience with counter narcotics in the US Navy and can say that the criminals either use low tech equipment (you would be surprised at how efective this is) or have equipment that is equal to or at times even more advanced than the stuff we used to intercept them.
    Either way I would contact the manufacturer for permission just to cover my self no matter what.
    And on another note my wife happens to work for NOAA so if there is anything that I may be able to help with let me know and I will see what I (well my wife lol ) can do.
  7. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

    Onward with this possible model. I now have the "floor plan" and the front and back elevations.
    I've made another trip to the State Fair for more photos. A friend of mine has become interested in it and has been asking questions about how the pontoons attache to the hull. There is another word for the pontoons which I can't remember right now. It starts with an s.
    Here is the current drawing. I still don't know how far I will take this in making it as a model.


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  8. rickstef

    rickstef Guest


    it is very close to pontoons

  9. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

    Thanks Rick that is the word I was after.
    Great word. I'm looking it up in the dictionary. It seems to be the name of the part that steadies a amphibious aircraft as well.

  10. GT5500

    GT5500 Member

    Not sure about the rest of the world but over here we tend to call them 'tubes' as opposed to sponsons.
  11. Ashrunner

    Ashrunner Member

    I thought "tubes" were subways over (t)here. :)

  12. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

    I love these linguistic details about boat and aircraft parts. I'm curious, have you sent any time on inflatable boats or on boats with inflatable parts?

    I used to dowhite water rafting we called them tubes in general, but the tubes going across were the thwarts and the parts going around were the pontoons, especially if the side tubes were two seperate parts. This is very important when describing the location of a hole in a raft.
    From what I gather these types of tubes are called sponsons if they are attached to a rigid hull.

    I can't keep from checking dictionaries. The OED says it doesn't know the origin of the word sponson, but give the usage for a inflatable part on the side of a boat as Canadian in usuage. Websters says it's probably an altered form of french for expansion and gives 1835 for first appearance date.

    Now I curious about the distribution of the word in North America. Is it used more in Canada and parts of the US near Canada?

    I love the vocabulary that I learn by cardmodeling. Thanks.

  13. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

    On ward with this model. I put the drawing into layers so that I can take off parts of the drawing to see the insides. Here are some of the layer that show the insides.
    That's pretty much done, so now I've started lofting the hull (designing the formers).

    Last night I got eiger and did a rough build of the hull. Lots of stuff looks like it fits in the drawing but doesn't once I'm dealing with the thickness of paper.Whoops!

    I put the people in for eyeballing scale. Since I built this from photos I need to know the size of something in the model and people are the easiest for me to see. Got to make sure the v-berth is long enough and the seats the right size.


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  14. 72BMWR75/5

    72BMWR75/5 Member

    British vs. American English

    I love the differences. My Dad was career Air Force. He once got a consulting job 'translating' a helicopter manuel from American to British.
    Iwent to a summer camp for Nato kids in Dover wayack in 1980. Joini a group of kids watching a pick-up soccor game I started to sit down on the grass. One of the British kids said, "Watch out for the dead fags." I looked around in horror. ;)
  15. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

    I don't know if anyone else works the way I do. I design by doing repeated builds. I build up to the point where I need to figure something out and then starting over again make changes in the process.
    I'm up to build number 4. Here is a photo of builds 2 through 4. I didn't include build #1 because it didn't hold together very well.
    Before I do the sponsons,I first need to work out the shape of the prow. The prow is still messy, and I'm not yet clear about location of formers and how they meet with the deck and v-berth interior.
    I'm going to do the full interior which will be fun with glimpses seen through the windows and portholes.
    Oh the models are each 5" long. The beam is 2". I don't know the scale. I calculated it at 1:60 but then increased the size by 6% to match my other models. I use the human figure to calculate scale.


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  16. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Heck way down in the Deep South...... we call em sponsons too!

    Whatever you want to call them boogers............ Lizzie........... how the heck are you gonna make em?

    Boats look neat......... I work with computer programmer and we got a name for them that do kinda what you are doing on the models...............(TIP) "Test in Production" Programmers......... they really don't like it:grin: , but when they change things and don't truly test the changes out before putting the jobs into the production job stream ain't no better way for them to get called at night!

    You always pick the most interesting stuff to model...........THANKS!
  17. sdk2knbk

    sdk2knbk Guest

    Lizzie, I do my design builds almost the same way (like the Agincourt.) For most of them, I usually stick with the original build unless something really comes out badly. Some of mine have 3 or 4 incarnations before anyone else sees them.

    The boats look great so far. I agree with Bowdenja, really interesting subject.

    Scott K.
  18. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

    I'm please they you like my subject matter.

    I'm gonna make the sponsons the same way that they get made full sized. I was a whitewater rafting guide for several years and so did minor repairs on rafts with this type of construction.

    This one has five chambers made of fabric sandwiched with polyurethan and glued together with contact cement. I'm fairly certain that in the original a paper pattern was placed over the fabric and drawn around with a marker before cutting. I seem to recall the marker lines on hidden parts of rafts, probably a Sharpie.

    I'm just substituting paper for fabric and PVA for contact cement. Should be easy. Yeah right.

  19. stagecoach

    stagecoach Member

    pontoons or bumpers

    They look to me like rubber bumpers rather then pontoons.:confused:
    It would be easier to board other vessels without having to put bumpers
    out over the side to protect the boat in higher seas, this way they don't
    have to worry about banging against other boats.A zodiac has hard rubber inflatable pontoons and looks almost the same.
    The coast guard uses them for the same reason to get up close and
    sometimes bump other vessels.
    standard outboard bumpers have rope attached and in high wave they tend
    to float up to the surface and not touch the sides they are trying to
    Of course this is only my opinion.:yep:
  20. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

    I wanted to see if you are right so I looked up the Zodiac website.

    Here is what Zodiac Canada says about this type of design. "There are 12 footballers in this ZODIAC, and it is capable of carrying more or manoeuvring, without taking water. This is because the buoyancy of a ZODIAC is far greater than that of a traditional boat, giving it a higher loading capacity"

    "Take a look at an inflatable boat. You see fabric, a wooden transom, the fittings... but you forget the air contained in the inflatable keel or in the buoyancy tubes which gives the boat its shape. Looked at this way, it is hardly surprising that a ZODIACĀ® fully inflated can be up to 3 times lighter than a comparable traditional boat making launching or pulling onto the beach so much easier."

    I also found out a bit of the history of Zodiac and how they started off by making zeppelins and balloons Check this out.
    Interesting factoid when looking at the construction of sponsons and raft pontoons. My interests keep ending up on the juncture between marinecraft and aircraft.


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