New Fokker E-III (okay, several)

Discussion in 'Internet Finds' started by Texman, Feb 23, 2006.

  1. milenio3

    milenio3 Active Member

    Thanks Bengt, I'll do my best.
  2. Ashrunner

    Ashrunner Member

    This is some information regarding automobile tires, but I would think it might apply to aircraft tires also. With most of the supplies of natural rubber being in the hands of Britain, US and other allied nations during WW1, Germany was experimenting a lot with synthetic methynol rubber. Anyway, this is the quote regarding auto tires:

    [FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]Most of the early tires were white, the natural color of rubber. Some were tinted with a pigment and were light gray or tan or beige. But by World War I, they were all black. They were black because tire manufacturers began adding carbon black ash to the rubber recipe to enhance toughness and wearability.

  3. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Black Ash

    Righto, "Ash",

    The Michelin brothers were apparently the first to add soot, or "carbon black ash", to the rubber mix in 1918 in order to extend the lifetime of the tires (and also the resistance to the drying-out of the Sun - the UV light, that is - from what I´ve heard). The other manufacturers probably followed suit and from then on (for example in late production Dr. Is or Fokker D.VIIIs) tires were apparently all black. But not on the early 1915-16 Eindeckers, and indeed, not on early race cars either.

    So, I guess we can quite safely assume that there were a mix of several light colours on the early tires market in 1915; off-white, beige, tan, medium brown, light grey or dark grey.
    There is, in fact, a variation of tone, nuance and shade in many black & white photos from the period.

  4. charliec

    charliec Active Member

    Just another thought(s)....

    Natural rubber is very susceptible to damage by oil - it slowly dissolves the rubber. As far as I'm aware early aircraft were often plastered with castor oil leaking from the engine and spun out of the rotary engines used. I wonder if part of the motivation of going to carbon black in the rubber was to improve the oil resistance of the tyres.

    There's also an economic argument for using carbon black since it's a very cheap extender of the expensive natural rubber as well as improving the physical properties of the rubber.

    As an aside the effect of breathing a castor oil spray on the pilots can only be imagined - for those of you with long memories might remember that castor oil used to be used as a powerful laxative.


  5. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Rubber and Castor Oil


    These are interesting thoughts, indeed. That makes good sense - rubber that is not protected in any way rather quickly dries and wears out.
    And yes, the rotary engines left a residue of castor oil on everything on the front end of the planes - aviator Mikael Carlson always has to wipe off his Blériot XI after every flight, and the goggles, too.
    I´ve read somewhere that´s why the early aviators had the stylish long white scarf to be able to wipe of the wind screen and goggles to see where they were flying. And some aviators had to run very quickly to the men´s room after landing . . .

    The rotary engines often also lit a small fire in the grass below upon starting and revving up, that had to be quickly put out by the ground crew before take-off.

    Lots of things to think about in those early days,
    Bengt :smile:
  6. Richard

    Richard Member

    more eindecker

    finally got my camera back and could shoot some pics of the first Eindecker on it's own wheels.
    Been working too much and building too little lately, hope this will change soon........:)

    Attached Files:

  7. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    simply amazing - are you sure that prop isnt wood? :)
  8. milenio3

    milenio3 Active Member

    What a piece of art!
    Good Richard!!
  9. Richard

    Richard Member

    the other two Eindeckers are now standing on their wheels as well.
    Also started the rigging on the grey plane, first big rigging job for me, keep my fingers crossed.......................
    here are 2 pics of 210/16 and Reuschke's mount.

    Attached Files:

  10. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Eindecker Fleet


    All three Fokkers look swell, even without the rigging!
    (no wing sagging)

    What kind of thread will you use for the rigging?

    Good luck with the wires!
    Bengt :roll:
  11. Richard

    Richard Member


    there's hardly any sagging in the wings and only a little movement. Hope this doesn't affect the rigging.
    I use cotton hand-yarn soaked in white glue but if anyone has a better option I'd like to know.

  12. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member


    Hi Richard,

    I suggest that you take a look at Eric´s excellent tutorial on the Aerodrome Forum:

    He uses monofilament thread here, but I know that he has also used "invisible thread" (is that nylon fishing line, Eric?), which is colored with a marker pen (see the Nieuport 11 Bébé), or the very thin (copper?) wires which are bundled to make loudspeaker wire, for example in the bracing wires of the 1911 Morane-Borel monoplane fuselage:

    Good luck, Richard,

    Bengt (only three planes to go now . . .) :grin:
  13. milenio3

    milenio3 Active Member

    Bengt, I just send you an e-mail. Friend, you were hiding, uhu? Glad you still here with us.

    I'm going to use the links for the rigging (another term learned today!).

    Thanks Rich and Bengt!!
  14. milenio3

    milenio3 Active Member

    These are my questions to Bengt, and now I'm posting them in this thread. (Copy-paste, hope you don't mind, Bengt):

    You know, I'm in the middle of building it (from the "basic" files), and I cannot see how to attach parts 33 to the tail, or the tail for that matter. Any photos from the tail attachement?

    Also I was thinking on "cheating" a little for the landing gear, instead of rolling the little paper there, maybe I can use matches. I'm planning on entering two Fokker EIII to the contest on October 7th for the El Paso (Texas) Scale Model Society, and I'm pondering if the use of matches on the landing gear is correct.

    Thank you guys!
  15. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Hey Guys.........

    Here is a find Gil made and posted in GB's Bristol Fighter thread.............

    Attached Files:

  16. speedless

    speedless Member

    Many of the new braided fishinglines are perfect as steelwire,comes in many sizes and look just like the real thing when painted.
    Its also VERY strong and nonflexible.
    Just a thought!
    I never got around to the "wirering".
  17. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Landing Gear

    Hi Gerardo,

    I´ve been busy with other matters for a while - thanks for the welcoming words.
    I´d recommend that you use something that is already round to start with - for example; rolled paper around thin wire, thin round tooth picks or round shashlik skewer sticks if you like to use wood.

    Bowdenja & speedless,

    These are really interesting new contributions to the never-ending discussion on wire rigging.
    I remember a thread a while back with a special kind of line that could be warmed to become taut. I think it was mainly used in model train landscapes, like telephone poles. That seemed really neat, too.

    Bengt :roll:
  18. Richard

    Richard Member

    landing gear and rigging

    As for the landing gear I rolled pieces of grey paper(80gr)around parts of straightened paperclips of 1mm diameter. A lot of rolling paper for 3 planes.............

    Just finished the rigging on the first plane and unfortunately all the batteries of the camera ran out of juice.
    With this plane I didn't run the wires through the wings but used seperate pieces of thread, will try running threads through the wings with the next plane.
    Also bought some nylon bead cord but they only had No3 and this seems to be almost too thick for the job. Tommorrow I'll pick up some silk bead cord at the local jewelry shop,hope this looks better.

    That's all for now, hope I can post some pics tomorrow.
  19. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member


    Looking forward to seeing them - your pictures are an inspiration to us all!

    All the best,
    Bengt :-D
  20. Richard

    Richard Member

    First one almost ready

    Thanks Bengt!

    this is how far I got yesterday evening, all the rigging done and I must say I'm satisfied with this result. Only the windscreen and gun visor have to be fitted.
    Hope I can shoot some pics by daylight tomorrow, cannot get decent ones with artificial light.

    Attached Files:

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