New Fokker E-III (okay, several)

Discussion in 'Internet Finds' started by Texman, Feb 23, 2006.

  1. Darwin

    Darwin Member

    Can shipbuilders play too? If so, I want the Black 5 version. :twisted: Got some ideas from my last visit to the craft shop that I've been wanting to try....this is as good an excuse as any.
  2. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

    Indeed, Darwin, you sure can...I prefer ships myself, as you probably know.:grin:

    We're getting quite a bit of interest in this idea, so the more the merrier! And some great links for detailing too!

  3. EricGoedkoop

    EricGoedkoop Member

    This sounds like a fun idea and I'll follow along with interest. If any of you guys have any questions about the spoked wheels, feel free to contact me.

    Looking forward to seeing all of your builds!
  4. Darwin

    Darwin Member

    :) :) :) we Have Us An Uncontest!!!!:) :) :)
  5. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Fokker E.III reference pictures (+ E.I & E.IV)

    Hi all "Eindeckers"!

    Here are some more Fokker Eindecker reference photos (of varying quality) which I found in a copy of the "Vintage Warbirds" series of booklets - nr 8, "German Air Aces of World War One" by Alex Imrie.
    The blurred photo (showing the E. II type) is taken from the book "History of Military Aviation", by Octopus Publ. Group Ltd., 2000.
    I thought these were interesting because they show the rigging in some detail, espacially on the landing gear.
    Two of the photos show the E. III type and the other two show the E. I and E. IV types, which were the first and last types of the E. (Eindecker) series, respectively. (The E. IV type seems to have had venting holes on the nose cowling, by the way).

    The fine pic of Vizefeldwebel Ernst Udet (the small guy to the left with Vizefeldwebel Weingärtner by his side) is for you Jim!
    The two gents are depicted in March, 1916, standing in front of a Fokker E. III from the KampfEinsitzer Kommando (KEK) Habsheim, which is one of the model schemes available from Modele-Kartonowe. The system of tightening screws on the rigging wires are clearly visible in this photo.
    In the text below the photo, by the way, Alex Imrie gives us some trivia info about Ernst Udet:
    "Udet took private lessons early in 1915 to gain direct entry to to the air service, and after flying two-seaters for four months converted to Fokker E monoplanes in November. He scored his first victory in March 1916 and by the end of the year had three victories. He was commissioned in January 1917, serving at the time with Jagdstaffel 15, which had been formed out of the KEK Habsheim".

    Concerning the rigging on our models:
    Perhaps this is a good opportunity to try Greg´s interesting method of using cigarette-heated nylon monofiliment fishing line, posted here (in BOLD italics):

    Another option, which I have also considered, is to use thin silver-grey sewing thread, preferrably made of strong polyetster. What are your views and ideas on this?

    By the way: Calling Greg and Eric! Perhaps you might want to join our Fokker E. III building group? There are still some very nice models left...

    For colour scheme reference, here´s a link to Bob Pearson´s page "History in Illustration", which apart from the standard German Air Service paint sceme shows two additional paint scemes, the Austro-Hungarian (Eduard Böhme) and the Turkish (Joachim Buddecke) schemes:

    Auf Wiederhören, Fliegerkameraden!
    Bengt :grin:

    Attached Files:

  6. EricGoedkoop

    EricGoedkoop Member

    Thanks, but I haven't had a lot of time for building lately and there's more than one project already languishing on the workbench. I'm best off a spectator on this one.
  7. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Hi Eric,

    Sure, I understand. Seems like an epidemic, this thing with many builds going on at the same time - I´m definately affected myself.
    We welcome your comments and ideas, though. And thanks again for your great instruction on how to build spoked wheels.

  8. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Grey Fokker E. III (German Air Service) - keel stretched!

    Hi all Fokker builders!

    Yesterday I finally got down to some cutting and glueing. And, inspired by Eric´s excellent scratchbuilding tutorial of two models on the Aerodrome Forum, I thought I might as well get two Fokker E. IIIs for the price of one:

    I had aleady printed the sheets for the "old" standard (yellow) version when the new twelve ones were released, so I´m building the two side by side, for comparison.
    I will use the new "enhanced parts" (wind shield and tail skid) for the old version with some slight modifications. However, I don´t think that the curved wooden propeller looks quite authentic. I will instead use the straight AXIAL (laminated oak) propeller (see the Fokker-Team-Schorndorf site), from a Fokker Dr. 1 kit (Sero-Warbirds), for both models. I hope Roman Seissler doesn´t mind...
    So, how is the fit of the build so far?
    Well, I´ve just laminated the formers and the long center part to 0.8 mm thick cardboard for a first "dry" fitting (see the attached pictures).
    One thing that I´ve encountered is that the floorboard (part nr 9) of the cockpit is almost 1 mm too short, in the scale I´m building.
    Due to my poor eyesight I decided early on to enlarge the models to 141% (European A3 format - 297 x 420 mm), which makes them about 1:24 scale.
    I also, as a general rule, cut all parts slightly on the inside of the visible black contour lines, to get rid of them on the finished model. This of course exaggerates small differences a bit. So, for those of you who haven´t cut out part nr 9 yet - be sure to add at least 0.5 - 0.8 mm in length, depending on your scale! You can always cut off excess material if you need to.
    I think I´ll solve this small problem by simply adding two extra bits of cardboard under the floorboard to be able to glue it firmly to the front former.
    Otherwise, the fit of the formers to the center part is excellent. The upper skin of the fuselage (behind the cockpit) should also be glued to thick cardboard, according to the instructions. There is a star * for all parts that shoud be glued to stiff card. This will help to keep the fuselage straight and strong, which is a must for the rigging.
    As you can see from the pictures I´m considering the cheap trick of using big black buttons for the wheels. If I use them I will drill tiny holes for pins or toothpicks and paint them in a light matte grey colour, to match photos from the period. If they look too thick (they might, especially on the insides) I will make tires out of tapered strips of grey card instead.
    How are the other builds coming along?
    The rigging is perhaps the greatest challenge on this model. Have a look at Eric´s tutorial on airplane model scratchbuilding at the Aerodrome Forum, where he meticulously rigs two models, a Pfalz and a Morane-Saulnier. It´s important to remember to glue all wires/lines, in the required length, to the inside of the fuselage skins and wings (with extra card reinforcements) before glueing them shut. A double knot and a drop of glue will hold them in place.
    Here Eric also explains another method of making spoked wheels (from card), accompanied by detailed close-ups. A great deal can be learned by looking at this. Thanks Eric for this free tutorial!
    By the way, you are members of the Aerodrome Forum too, aren´t you?..

    Good luck with your builds!
    Auf Wiederhören!
    Bengt :grin:

    Attached Files:

  9. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Short Floorboard and Side Panels on The E. III

    Hi all,

    It seems that I´m not the only one having had problems with parts that doesn´t fit perfectly on the Fokker E. III from Modele-Kartonowe.
    I found this thread by Ron (and Gil): E-III
    It´s interesting to read before starting to cut off too much material...

  10. Brian Williams

    Brian Williams New Member

    definately, some fit problems...but nothing too bad. i'm really pleased with the overall design (and free to boot!). thanks for all the info. on these beautiful planes.
  11. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

  12. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

    Good Day, All!

    Thanks, Herr Freden, for all the marvelous links you've posted during the last week or so, they are certainly both inspiration and instructive to our project.

    Sadly, I have not had the chance to even start my model yet, for that matter I've not been able to spend any time modeling, due to press of other matters, but I have tried to check in on the forum and see what's up elsewhere. I'm hoping things will settle down a bit for a while so I can finally get to some cutting and gluing...all the pages are printed out, just need the time to give them some attention.

    Anyway, I like that you've started two versions at the same time, Bengt, and they look to be superb models. I do hope, despite few other posts being made, the rest of the Fliegerkameraden are getting ready to work on their selection version as well. I hope to do my part shortly and get going on the Udet version.

    Meawhile, keep those resource posts coming...they are great!

  13. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Fokker E. III; Small Details That Make a Difference

    Hi Jim,

    I´ve been very occupied with matters of daily life myself lately.
    The most important thing, as I see it, is that we´re having fun and enjoying our hobby! No hurry or deadline, or as "Darwin" put it: "We are having us an uncontest"! We have all the time in the world.
    I think your idea was such a good one - we can exchange ideas, socialize and get to know each other a little better on the Forum and refine our modelling techniques as we are progressing.

    Regarding the propeller shape on the Fokker E. series:
    I just bought a very fine used book the other day, "Fokker: The Creative Years" by A. R. Weyl (Putnam, London, 1987). Flicking through the pages which cover the early Eindeckers I quickly realized that most of the E. planes (I, II, and III) were fitted with the older, curved type of propeller. It was even fitted to the early prototypes of the Dr. 1 triplane ("Dr." for "Dreidecker"), the V. 3 and V. 4.
    So, the prop supplied by Modele-Kartonowe seems to be just the proper one - my mistake. See the attached photos below (credit: the above mentioned book) - sorry about the bad moiré effect I got scanning them.
    The straight, visibly laminated AXIAL oak prop was fitted later, it seems, on production Dr. 1s, D. VIs, D. VIIs, and D. VIIIs.

    Another little building tip:
    On many pictures I´ve seen of finished Modele-Kartonowe E. IIIs, the dotted lines on the fuselage where the wings are to be attached are very much visible.
    I just experimented with carefully scraping down the dots on the side parts with a very sharp, pointed scalpel (I had to use my magnifying lens headset for this). It came out really good - this leaves near paper-white lines instead that are not so apparent to the eye. Of course you can also do some touching up with a colour pencil or watercolours in matching tones, especially for the darker planes (the green and red ones).
    The same could perhaps apply to the big black dots on the wings where the rigging lines are to be attached.

    Concerning the metal plates behind the engine and the nose cowling:
    On all pictures of the real thing I´ve seen so far these metal parts were polished in small circles, like the nose of Lindbergh´s "Spirit of St. Louis". I´ve thought about experimenting with some kind of silver paper or perhaps the back-side of thin aluminium foil (if it doesn´t look to shiny). Another option is of course to paint the nose with silver Humbrol paint or the like. On Modele-Kartonowe´s home page there are some pictures of the completed model (without propeller) where these parts (and even the Oberursel U-1 engine) are painted in silver.
    Any ideas on this?

    Bengt :grin:

    Attached Files:

  14. EricGoedkoop

    EricGoedkoop Member


    For my money, nothing looks like metal like metal. I use aluminum duct repair tape, available at the hardware store:


    It's very smooth and shiny on the roll, which usually isn't quite what I want so I lay a piece on a flat surface and gently scuff it up with fine sandpaper or steel wool. Depending on your level of patience, it should even be possible to make the "sworled" machining pattern on the Fokker cowl with a Dremel tool or by hand with a bit of sandpaper adhered to the end of a wooden dowel. Just be careful not to sand through the tape. When you're happy with the finish, apply the tape to the backside of your card (you'll have to mirror the parts if they're not symmetrical, but round cowls won't present any trouble) and cut out your parts. You'll go through a few blades - as they get dull you'll notice the tape forming a slight ridge at the edge as you cut. This is easily smoothed out.

    Alternatively, you can cut out the card parts as normal, then stick them to an oversized piece of the tape and trim the excess. I do it both ways.

    The tape will add thickness to your part, so you may have to compensate for that. One nice thing is that because it's real metal, it will hold a curve much better than paper does.

    Good luck and have fun!

  15. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Aluminium Duct Repair Tape for Metal Parts


    Thank for that wonderful tip! I had just begun thinking about some kind of careful micro polishing of the Canford metallic paper for the machined metal pattern, with the aid of a small electric hand drill that I have but this sounds a lot better.
    I´ll just have to find it at some local hardware store here in Stockholm, and try it out ASAP. This opens up a range of possibilities, and seems to be a better alternative than trying to find some metallic silver paper for my ink jet printer. I have several projects awaiting a good solution to this problem.

    Does the tape addhere well to card? If it does so permanently, there is no need for glue, which speeds up the process considerably and also reduces the risk of glue stains on the parts (somehow my fingers are always sticky with glue) That´s great!
    The nose of your latest scratch build is absolutely stunning! It really looks like real, weathered metal. Does the tape you use come in different widths?
    A wide tape is of course more useful for larger parts (fewer joints).

    I have to ask you one other thing: The crispness of your posted photos always amazes me. How do you manage to get this quality and still fit them to the attachment limit of only 97 Kb? I´ve got a fantastic Nikon D70 digital camera that can produce superb RAW pictures of up to 15 Mb in size. So what I do is: shoot in BASIC, low quality jpg-mode, then crop and reduce the image size as much as possible, but they are still too large. So I minimize the pixel size and "Save for Web" in Photoshop CS. And then reduce the image size further to fit the 97.7 Kb limit. And they come out terrible, just like my first build photos on page 3 of this thread. Have you got any smart tips for a forum freshman on how to reduce the file size and still keep the contour sharpness and overall picture quality? I´d really appreciate it.

    By the way, folks, here´s another interesting link for colour schemes on the Fokker Eindeckers (The WINGS PALETTE page):

    Up, up, and away!
    Bengt (Werner Voss´s nose cowl):mad:
  16. EricGoedkoop

    EricGoedkoop Member


    The tape adheres to card powerfully, to say the least. It's designed to repair and seal joints in sheet metal ductwork, so it's pretty serious stuff. Make extra sure there are no bits of anything on the card or stuck to the tape before you apply it - if so you'll have some pretty obvious lumps and no way to get rid of them!

    The roll I have is 2" wide. I'm not sure if it comes in different widths or not. I bought it four or five years ago and I'm nowhere near using it up yet.

    It'll take a little practice to get used to working with the stuff, but it's the best way I've found so far to handle metal areas.

    Regarding the photos - they're uploaded to PhotoBucket and direct-linked, not attached here. That way the size limitation isn't an issue, it's easy to post them in multiple places and they won't get lost if the Forum should go kerplooey.
  17. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    One easy and simple method is to use a mechanical pen eraser in a Dremel tool bit. Dip the eraser while spinning in a little polishing compound and proceed to "swirl" the surface. Tripoli polishing compound will yield a good result while white compound yields a circular mirrored result.

  18. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Aluminium Duct Repair Tape


    Thanks for the clarification. Does the tape have some kind of paper backing (if you are able to scuff it up with steel wool or sand paper)?

    Re. PhotoBucket:
    I visited the site. Seems like a good solution for handling photos. Do you, as a side effect, get any spam mail or promotions from third party web dealers?

  19. Darwin

    Darwin Member

    Looking at the preceeding discussion, I might as well fess up to what I'm going to be trying. I found some very thin aluminum sheet with adhesive backing on one side down at the local crafts store (look in the scrapbooking section). What I ran across has four letter-size sheets in the package. Pricy, but not too much so (about $1 per sheet). I haven't opened up the package yet (thought I was doing good just to have found the "safe" place I put it), but the aluminum sheet looks to have about the same thickness as 110-pound cardstock. You can get great patterning using an electric drafting eraser...also a fairly inexpensive item you can usually find in the art section of the craft store. Back in my stick-and-tissue days, I was able to come up with very realistic WW-I vintage cowls using the technique on the back side of flattened-out aluminum cans. I don't know yet if the aluminum sheet will take inkjet ink without should negotiate my Epson's paper path without trouble. I personally kind of doubt it, but it will be worth a try. If it does work, the FG Sabre will be next!
  20. EricGoedkoop

    EricGoedkoop Member

    Yep. Peel n' stick.

    I haven't had any problems, except for exceeding the bandwidth limit on a free account. Still, $25 a year isn't so bad.

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