My Next Project

Discussion in 'Gallery & Designs' started by Willja67, Sep 2, 2006.

  1. blueeyedbear

    blueeyedbear Member

    Hey, Will

    I can't believe that with this many answers to your original post, there doesn't seem to be a birder in the bunch. And I'll bet I'm very likely the only one who ever taught Ornithology at the university level!

    My choice of the identity of the big raptor is a mature golden eagle. Right eye color, shoulder and neck color, two-toned beak (but not yellow). The beak color and eye color say it's not a bald eagle. Harris's hawk and Swainson's hawk have white on their neck. So a golden is all that's left (and Harris's is basically very southern TX, NM, and AZ). That is a spectacular photo!!

    The three best reference books for novices (or pros) are the Peterson Field Guide to Western Birds or Eastern Birds or Birds of Texas (depending on where you are). The Sibley Guide to Birds and the National Geographic Society Field Guide to the Birds are also excellent (better for Bird Carvers and paper model designers than Peterson) Most good book stores have them, as to most libraries (never needed a Field Guide in a Library:roll:). While you're in the book store, buy a copy of the new edition of Montgomery and Foster's Field Guide to the Airplanes. It is delightful:-D !! And check out the other airplane books while you're at it!
  2. charliec

    charliec Active Member

    Pity it wasn't one of these - Wedge-tailed Eagle. the model might be a bit on the large side though - 2.5m (100 in) wingspan.

    Occaisonally see these over Brisbane at high altitude - they climb up to over 2000m.



    Attached Files:

  3. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Lot's of good replies thanks folks.

    @Ash that would be worth the price of admission to see that. My own Golden Eagle experience came at an aviary. They were doing a bird show and had a box high up in a tree with the golden eagle in it and when they opened the box using a rope it was supposed to fly somwhere but instead it flew so low over me that I had to duck. At least it felt like I needed to seeing that big bird coming straight for me.

    @Bear I'm glad to get some names of books. Also I would kind of like to know about the skeletal structure for this model. Having dimensions on the length of the main bones in the wings would be great and obviously there are a lot of things that knowledege would be good for so if you know good anatomy books that would be helpful. I would also love to pick your brain for any pertinent info. So do these books you mention have plan views of the bird with its wings spread out?

    @Charlie, Sorry the project has been picked and it will probably be the only bird I ever do(maybe I might get addicted) and it will probably take a year or more to do.
  4. dinsour

    dinsour Member

    pooped on

    Ash just be glad cows can't fly:grin:

    -----73 ron
  5. Ashrunner

    Ashrunner Member

    Well, it was the only thing I caught that day...eagle do-do...hehehe.


    I am a birder. But the ID of Golden Eagle was spot on, so I didn't see any reason not to contradict it. 212 on my life list, and 104 on my photo list.

    I have entertained the thought of doing models of all the birds which can be seen in Oregon. Started a Bald Eagle a while ago. Still working on it. Should have started on something smaller, like a Ruby-crowned Kinglet...hehe.

  6. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Yeah Ash........ I thought I posted it was a Golden Eagle..........:cry:

    When sitting under a tree resting.............NEVER look up!:-D
  7. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Searching the internet yielded this result

    Can anyone speak to the value of this book. Also a little lower on the page is another one and the same question applies. I think if I buy reference material it will be specific and not a general book unless said general book has exceptionally valuable info.
  8. blueeyedbear

    blueeyedbear Member

    The two books on eagles look to be well illustrated, judging by the cover pix, but I would want to thumb thru them before buying. Can't help you there.

    The Sibley and National Geo guides have some good, but small illustrations of birds in flight overhead. It just dawned on me that I have never seen a pix of the top side of a bird in flight, which presents a problem for a model designer. I don't have a clue where to go for color patterns on the dorsal surface.

    I did find a book that should be helpful for you: Proctor and Lynch: Manual of Ornithology (in Amazon - new and used). If this is the book I think it is, it's been around for a long time and I've used it as a student and as a teacher (it looks right, but new authors). It won't give you any specific sizes of wing bones for different species, but the basic anatomy of all birds is the same with some modifications. The U of Missouri publishes Avian Osteology by Gilbert, Martin, and Savage, but I've never seen the book.

    The key words for googling in this area are ornithology and avian. They will produce lots of hits, but no where near as many as bird or eagle.

    If you are in a college town, check the book stores. Check "Comparative Anatomy" in them as well as Ornithology. And check the regional museums. The Texas Museum of Natural History is in Dallas, about 3 hours away from me, and it has all kinds of mounted specimens of birds, including some mounted skeletons. And the staff of most museums will be delighted to help, once they know what you are doing.

    I dug around a bit and found a chicken skeleton from a biological supply company for $200 but you can buy a whole chicken and make a big pot of soup and have the skeleton left over (seriously). If you buy a rooster from a chicken farmer, you not only get the head, tail, and feet, but the feathers as well --- sounds silly, but the layout of wing and tail feathers is almost identical in all flying birds.

    FYI: I retired in 1992 and gave away most of my books when my wife and I became fulltime RVers. Now, my mental list of reference and text books is fading away.

  9. GT5500

    GT5500 Member

    I would call myself a birder, however I have never really bothered to study birds of prey too much, as round my way here in the uk I am only likely to ever see Kestrel's and Sparrow hawks. Incidently the other day I was driving down my track only to be greeted by a Sparrow hawk sitting on the road with its talons fully submerged in a collared dove, and strangely it didn't fly off till I got very close and even then it didn't move far. Another strange thing round may way is that although there is a lack of raptors, we have quite a large breeding population of ringneck parakeets :confused: I have also seen a white stork locally as well!
  10. GT5500

    GT5500 Member

    On a different note and I don't mean to steal your thread, but in recent years over in parts of Wales and Buckinghamshire, thanks to the two breeding centres we have seen a massive incline in the red Kite population. Although no where near as large as the Golden Eagle they are a mighty impressive bird with their forked tails. And to think they were almost extinct at in this country, they have now turned their attentions to the osprey as they have ll but vanished from this country now :( a fantastic osprey model already exists but I would really love to see a model of a red kite.
  11. Ashrunner

    Ashrunner Member


    I am with blueeyedbear on the info regarding the books. They are something you really need to look through yourself. I haven't seen either of the books. I got started with raptor identification by using a book called Hawks in Flight.

    It probably isn't a good book for what you want, but does give good looks at flight patterns of various raptors. about this for a top side view of a bird?

  12. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Time to ressurect this thread.

    I've started slowly building the skeleton. The only reason for this skelton is so I can get the right pose so it will of necessity remain fairly simple. Here is a screen shot sans head and feet.

    The highlighted bone is the femur and I am wondering does it move at all? In the pics I've been looking at it looks possible that it stay stationairy and only the bones below it move.

    Attached Files:

  13. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Best drawing of someone doing the Funky Chicken I ever saw!:grin:

    Just pulling your femur Will!:grin:

    Glad to see you back at the real bird.............. I can't wait.

  14. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Arrgh a punster!!:cry:

    I've been considering getting a plugin for Rhino for the purpose of animating mechanical drawings maybe I should make it do the funky chicken like you suggest.

    Seriously folks I need this info. Please any of you ornithologists I'm on hands and knees begging! My perfectionist nature will not let me do this half baked. Don't even go there John.
  15. blueeyedbear

    blueeyedbear Member

    Leg Motion

    I replied to you personal message before I saw the diagram in your earlier posting. I may be able to help out after all.

    The three joints in the leg are basically just like ours, hip, knee, and "tibiotarsal". They are all hinge joints with a bit of rotation in the hip. The toes work like your fingers. All the joint lock up when fully extended (like our knees and elbows.

    Watch a chicken! Or buy a whole chicken and play with it before you cook it!:twisted:

    Does that help?

  16. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

  17. Maurice

    Maurice Member

  18. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Well I'm not a professional bird guy............. but I have seen my share of big birds around the water. We got Osprey around here.

    If you ever saw one snatch a fish from the water........... yes that sucker you got highlighted moves forward............pretty darn far too. Both forward and backward if it's a big fish.

    I love watching these guys snag a's amazing how they do all those different things at once............wings, feet and head all going pretty fast in the air not far from a very solid surface.

    If I was that coordinated I would be able to fish two reels at once while controlling the boat trolling motor and drinking a soda and chew gum at the same time...................
  19. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    @John thanks for your restraint and for the link I've been interested in that model for awhile but not enough to shell out the dough to get it.

    @Bob no I need some clarification. Like I said the highlighted (yellow) section is the femur and to me it looks like it might not move it's just used to hold the rest of the leg. Is that right?


    Maurice you may have just helped substantially with that post. There is a cgi image of a skeleton in your first link that looks a lot like the line drawings that I have been using and it is of a dove. Rats I was hoping it was of an eagle. I may have to start all over. Better I guess to find out now than later.

    Anyone know of any good line drawings or pics of eagle skeletons? Or is what I have adaptable?
  20. blueeyedbear

    blueeyedbear Member

    Bird Leg

    OK, got your last post.

    The thigh moves just like ours -- folds and extends at the hip. Usually pulled up in flight (like retractable gear!) for streamlining, but extended when grasping. It does seem like they are usually about half extended like ours are when we are sitting.

    I hope I've helped you.


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