More Progress at Toronto's John Street Roundhouse

Discussion in 'The Real Thing- North America' started by RobertInOntario, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. RobertInOntario

    RobertInOntario Active Member

    Good progress is happening at the Toronto Railway Historical Association's John Street Roundhouse/railway museum.

    You can read about the latest developments here:

    There are plans to move the historic Don Station (currently at Todmorden Mills historical site in the Don Valley) to the Roundhouse park.

    Just FYI.

  2. TinGoat

    TinGoat Ignorant know it all

    Toronto's John Street Roundhouse

    Hi Rob,

    I've been getting involved with the Toronto Railway Historical Ass'n [TRHA].

    That's me in the red hard hat.

    TRHA will be at the Toronto Christmas Train Show next weekend.

    The weekend after that [November 29] is the monthly tour of Toronto Union Station lead by local historian Derek Boles.

    Local historian Derek Boles hosts the Toronto Railway Heritage Yahoo! Group. Derek posts a daily digest of "This day in Toronto Railway History":

    This is one of the nine events that happened today in history:

  3. RobertInOntario

    RobertInOntario Active Member

    Thanks! I've been getting the emails as well from the TRHA Yahoo group. Sure sounds like good progress is happening at the roundhouse.

    Maybe I could say hello next weekend at the Toronto show, either at the TRHA booth or at the Narrow Gauge Madness booth (I think you'll be there, right?). One of these days I'll have to go on the Toronto Union Station tour -- it sounds great.

    Yes, I really miss the cabooses on our freight trains but I guess you have to go with progress & what's profitable.:cry:

  4. stuart_canada

    stuart_canada Member

    does anyone here remember the steam locomotives that use to sit in a siding between some buildings downtown Toronto, it would be in the mid 70s or early 80s I remember my grandfather and grandmother taking me to the harbour front flea market and i owuld hang out at the train museum there and then we would walk by the collection of locomotives on the way home. i do not remember where they were jsut on the way back tothe subway sation.
    any ideas where and or what happened to them?
  5. TinGoat

    TinGoat Ignorant know it all

    Steam Locomotive No. 6213

    Hi Stuart,

    I believe that you are talking about Canadian National Railway Steam Locomotive No. 6213.

    It is located next to the Marine Museum in the Canadian National Exhibition Grounds.

    It may have spent some time down at Toronto's short lived Railway Museum at Harbourfront before the collection was disbanded and disbursed in the 70's.

    It is going to be moved to the John Street Roundhouse for display at the Toronto Railway Heritage Museum.


    I always look forward to seeing and talking to Gauge Members at the train show.
  6. stuart_canada

    stuart_canada Member

    no it was not at the CNE grounds, i know that loco, seen it many times. there were at least 3 locomotives in the siding. it was in a factory area near the harbour front area. my grandfather was train nut was big into steam locomotives. he always said we would go back and take pictures but never went back that summer and then they were gone.
  7. TinGoat

    TinGoat Ignorant know it all

    Toronto Harbourfront Railway Museum

    Hi Stuart,

    Yes, during the 70's the Canadian Railway Historical Ass'n, Toronto & York Division along with the City of Toronto started to develop a Railway Museum at Toronto's Harbourfront. The area was in transition from heavy industry to City Park and residential development. There were rails down the middle of Queens Quay and stubs out to all the piers and warehouses.

    The whole museum was a hodge-podge of equipment and you could ride a hand car up and down a short length of track. I was only about 10 years old at the time and I'd go down to Harbourfront with my Dad to explore all the interesting stuff and go to the adventure playground.

    Then, in the evening, we'd go to the jazz concerts.

    The adventure playground was great! A fenced in area where they would had out hammers and saws to the kids and let them build stuff out of scrap lumber and old rusty nails!!! :cool:

    Insurance companies wouldn't let that sort of thing happen these days, but it was the seventies and things were different...

    The railway museum only lasted for a couple of years before the city started to sell off the land for development and the collection had to be disbursed or scrapped. Some of the stuff is stored at the John Street Roundhouse and will be back on display when the museum is opened.

    Join the Toronto Railway Heritage Yahoo! Group. I'm sure that Derek and the other members there will be able to tell you more about what equipment was displayed at Harbourfront and what happened to them.
  8. stuart_canada

    stuart_canada Member

    i remember riding the hand car, back and forth on the siding there, i also remember the loco it was a CN switcher, not sure what happened to it. I was able to see the equipment for the last time when it was parked on asiding near Old Fort York in the late 80s 88, or 89, hobos were living in the cars, some of the cars ended up in the Smiths Falls Ontario collection. The CN dental car is there, the vingar car is the roundhouse in toronto, I do not remember any of the other cars. I did hear the switcher was torched for scrap because of the trucks and bearings. I use to visit the museum a couple times a summer when visiting my grandparents. Then one summer it was gone. I remember the street running tracks along queens quay, never saw a train there, but was street cars have replaced them.
    The museum use to be at the water front very close to the flea market, on sundays it drew a crowd because of the flea market. Then the flea market moved due to rebuilding the waterfront area, then the museum was moved to very remote part of the waterfront. That seemed to be the end of the museum.

    here is what i learned from another yahoo list.

    The locos were part of the collection for the still born railway
    display at the Ontario Science Centre in Toronto. Locomotives stored
    downtown were a CP 2-8-2, (5361) a CP 4-6-4 (2839) and a CN 4-6-2
    (5107) if I recall correctly. .CN 4-6-0 1520, CN 2-6-0 91, CP 4-4-0
    136 and CP 4-6-0 1057 werte also part of the collection although I
    don't think they were assembled downtown. Also includes were a Shay
    two or three 0-4-0 tank engines and a couple of 0-4-0T Welsh slate
    mine locos.

    Only one of these latter engines became a display at the Science
    Scentre and it is cut in half to display the inner workings of a
    steam engine. The CP 2-8-2, 4-6-0 and 4-6-4, and the CN 2-6-0 were
    auctioned off to US bidders although the 4-6-0 was reprieved and
    stayed in Ontario. The CN 4-6-2 went to Kaspuskasing, the CN 4-6-0
    to Prince George, the CP 4-4-0 joined the CP 4-6-0 and eventually
    ended up at Tottenham, the Shay at Komoka, I'm not sure fate of the
    0-4-0t locos except I think one is near Orillia and one of the Welsh
    engines returned to Wales.

    I hope this helps. I'm sure others will correct any errors as I am
    just going from memory.

    The 2-8-2, 5361 is now privately owned and has been sitting on an
    industrial siding just outside Buffalo, NY for years.
    http://www.steamloc vlocomotive. cfm?Display= 900

    The Royal Hudson, 2839 is now stuffed and mounted at the Nethercutt
    Museum in California
    http://nethercuttco llection. org/EndPage. aspx?page= train

    The CN Mogul, #91, is at the Middletown & Hummelstown Railroad in
    Pennsylvania in running condition.
    http://www.steamloc vlocomotive. cfm?Display= 1031

    so there is some info , but no one seems to remember the locos parked in a siding down town

    i also remember a locomotive parked at the carleton card factory in toronto on eglinton ave east i think, it was gone from that site. I use to see it from the Lesile street bus after it turned to go to the subway station.
    Another locomotive i remember seeing in toronto when i was a kid, was the GE Factory near Landsdowne ( saw itfrom the Keele 41 bus route, when the bus went to Landsdowne subway station) it was parked ina parking lot on what may have been a siding or just on the ground , it was later tarped. I never saw it again because we took the 106 bus to Wilson Station instead when I went to my grandmother's office.

    I also remember a loco at the former army base at CFB Downsview, ( Keele and Shepard area) it was that the Supply Depot there, it was land locked the tracks were pulled up and no more rail service to the supply depot. The military kept the loco there, it was 44 ton GE i think if memory serves me right. I was later stationed there and the loco was parked near a door, then it was taken inside. Friends who were army EME they use to have to do the yearly tech inspection on the loco, i do not know what happened to it, I had left the base before it was closed and I never saw it again.

    If any one from the museum reads this, there are 2 pieces of toronto railroad history that might be able to be found for the collection if not gone already.
    There is also or maybe gone now a air powered locomotive looks like a 0-4-0 little tanker loco at a heavy equipment and building movement company some where along old highway 7 between Jane street and dufferin street. I hacve pics of it some where, do not recall exactly where it is on the map. it is in rough shape, but looked whole, good coat of paint and some glass required for the windows in the cab and it could be on display.

    if i lived in the toronto area i would be very happy to join and help do what kind of grunt work the museum needed done.
    But i live near Ottawa and too far to commute to but i will visit and explore when it opens
    stuart warren
    renfrew ontario
  9. 60103

    60103 Pooh Bah

    6213 was installed at the CNE in 1960 and has never been moved, to my knowledge.
    I went down one night to see it go in. It was being pulled by some sort of tractor and they were using snap-track sections to take it down the roads. I assume i started at one of the sidings behind the horse palace.

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