Discussion in 'Aircraft & Aviation' started by EricGoedkoop, Oct 13, 2005.

  1. EricGoedkoop

    EricGoedkoop Member

    Thought that might pique some interest.

    It's not really that difficult, but it takes a little planning and a lot of time and patience. Gil's right - the jig is essential. It's really just a circle of card with another circle cut out of the middle of it and slits made around the perimeter. Monofilament is strung across the jig from one slit to the one directly opposite it for the spokes, capturing the hub in the center. The rim is made in two halves and they are glued to the spokes, then it's cut free from the jig and the tire added.

    There's one very important trick to doing it . . . . .

    As soon as I'm finished with this build - and the two wheels to go with it - I'm going to write up a step-by-step tutorial with pictures and diagrams. It'll be a few weeks, but I'll post it here when I get it all together.
  2. rickstef

    rickstef Guest

    to quote some very famous words:

    "We're not worthy, we're not worthy!"

  3. EricGoedkoop

    EricGoedkoop Member

    Oh, pish. It's honestly not nearly as difficult as it looks.
  4. Gil

    Gil Active Member


    You know not what angst you cause! Couple of weeks!!!??? The whole World could end by then and we'd all have a trip to the great beyond without ever knowing the secret of the Beautiful Spoked Wheel. Please for the sake of Card humanity take a break from the model and enlighten the great unwashed.

    Ok, so it's a bit pleady, but what the hey, we really want to know AND we want to know right now..., Please?


    P.S. You do this and I'll trade you one on making beautifully formed cowls from aluminum foil...,
  5. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    I bet Neil Armstrong says that all the time.....

    Tim P
  6. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

    Eric, that wheel is just incredible!!

    I do hope you show us how it's done sooner than later... ;-)


  7. EricGoedkoop

    EricGoedkoop Member

    That's very tempting . . . .

    In all honesty, I need to do a few more and make sure that this one wasn't a miraculous fluke, and after spending the better part of three days experimenting the model is a nice break from making wheels!

    I started the Morane-Borel's wings last night, and after that she only needs rigging, wheels (and that will be the real test - making a matched pair) and a propellor. Won't take long. In the meanwhile, those who haven't seen this yet might want to read over Harry Woodman's methods for making spoked wheels. The first one was my starting point, and although there are least two reasons Harry's technique won't work for card modelling it's still worth studying.

    Also, I have it on good authority that one of the perks of the Great Beyond is that everyone makes really nice wheels.
  8. Gil

    Gil Active Member


    Read Harry Woodman's method and after looking at your picture in Photoshop figured the following method is how it was accomplished:

    You used the outer form (per Woodman), wrapped a few spokes, inserted hub and spindle followed by winding the rest of the spokes. Hub, spindle and spokes were then CA'd together. Split conical shaped rims with spoke indents were then glued to the spokes with CA while somehow keeping both halves together in the form. It was then cut from the form and the ends trimmed closely to the rims. It was finished with one of your wound tires...., Beautiful, effective and stylish.

    Wow, we'll probably see a lot more spoked wheels on paper models. Congratulations! And you didn't even have to write a tutorial!

  9. Ashrunner

    Ashrunner Member

  10. EricGoedkoop

    EricGoedkoop Member


    Not quite. Early on I found it was impossible (for me, at least) to overcome the tension of the monofilament with flimsy paper rims. Notice that Woodman accomplished the "pinch" by loading the whole thing in a vise, which obviously we can't do. Here's the trick: if you wrap the monofilament so that it runs from the front of the jig to the back of the hub and vice-versa, the spokes will cross each other at a determinable distance from the center. This is where you need the attach the rim, where there is no pinching to be done.

    Pretty much.

    Thanks! I deliberately simplified the spoke pattern a little, reducing it to 48 spokes from 64. It should be possible to make a "correct" wheel but my goal is to make one that does the job without driving myself nuts!

    I hope so.

    I will anyway. I'd like to draw some diagrams and photograph each step of the process, from making the jig all the way through to the end. There are also a couple of finer points that I'd like to cover so everyone else won't fall in the same holes I did along the way.

  11. EricGoedkoop

    EricGoedkoop Member

    All will be made clear, my friend.
  12. Gil

    Gil Active Member


    Thanks for the confirmation and clarification. Your tutorial will be a great addition to card modeling. I've been thinking about scratch building some of the earyl motorcycles and this puts the finishing touch on the biggest problem area. Another area is the Nieuports, especally 11 & 17 which will look spectacular with spoked wheels.

    Thanks from all of us!

  13. EricGoedkoop

    EricGoedkoop Member

    My pleasure. I hope everyone can put the technique to good use.

    Here's the Morane-Borel with the wing attached and rigged:


  14. Nick L.

    Nick L. New Member


    That is really beautiful! Awesome job.
  15. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    No Wonder!

    You were able to get everything straight! You do have a lot of patience. These things are about as fiddly as it gets. This means the wheels are next!

  16. EricGoedkoop

    EricGoedkoop Member

    It's not so bad if you actually use the rigging to true up the wing. What I do is poke two holes in the wing at each attachment point. I tie a loop of thread through these two holes and around the top and bottom line going to that point and lock the knot with a drop of white glue. This way, I can adjust each line independently until the wing is straight, then just tie off the lines. Works like a charm.[/quote]

    Yup - wheels and then the prop and that should be about it. I should be working on that wheel tutorial by next week, I guess.
  17. Texman

    Texman Guest

    Yes, I use the same rigging method in my 1/144 kits that Eric used. Drill the holes
    first, then use the rigging to true everything up, if required. Doesn't take much
    to bring it all together.

    Nicely done Eric

  18. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

    I checked out Woodman's version. Erics is better in being closer to the construction of a real wheel with crossed spokes. Woodman's pinch results in a straight laces wheel with all the spokes in the same plane which wouldn't be a very sturdy wheel. Straight laced is fine. Putting all the spokes in the same plane creates the problem.

    Oh it's tempting to try making model bicycles and HPVs (human powered vehicals) around those wheels. Oh a Letra, a Greenspeed. Maybe even a Gossimar Condor

    No! No! I will not get distracted by beautiful wheels.

  19. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Eric et al,

    I think I've figured out the trick to how the jig is constructed and it is clever. It took a day and half of trying different approaches. Just keeping the order of the spoke pattern takes practice and believe or not requires some amount of concentration to keep it going right. I don't want to hijack Eric's thread so just a hint at how it's done; "you have to spoke the wheel twice". Now to acutally build one (have to construct a special tool to make it a whole lot less fiddly)...,


    P.S. Eric, Now look at what you have gone and done. You've gotten us into another fine mess...,
  20. EricGoedkoop

    EricGoedkoop Member

    So the way this is going, Gil, you'll have it figured out and have everyone else busy building 'em before I even get a chance to write up the instructions.

    Or . . . . .

    Care to make it interesting?

    I won't have the tutorial ready for at least a week and a half, maybe two. That should give you plenty of time to perfect the method. Write yours up, I'll write mine up and we'll post them both. I'm curious to see how you solve the problems I ran into.

    On a slightly different topic, I didn't work on the model tonight but I did finish up some drawings of the machine that I've been working on during the build:



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