Medieval Stronghold

Discussion in 'Internet Finds' started by Richard, Jun 3, 2006.

  1. Richard

    Richard Member

  2. thewoodengraver

    thewoodengraver Active Member

    Hi Richard,
    that is a great model ! thanx for the link.:grin:
  3. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Sopwith Triplane

    Hi Richard,

    Thanks for this great link - under "Sopwich" I found a very detailed model of the Sopwith triplane, on three sheets + assembly instructions.

  4. Richard

    Richard Member

  5. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Sopwith Tripe Model

    Hi Richard,

    Wow - that´s a smashing build! Really fine pictures, too.
    I´ve got to print it out and put in the "projects-to-build" pile.

    The Sopwith triplane was a very successful design - when the Germans captured one and studied it behind their lines, Anthony Fokker was more or less ordered to forget about his advanced parasol monoplane designs (which were much later realized in the beautiful E.V/D.VIII at the very end of the war) and develop a prototype for a German triplane, with the same impressive climb and manouvering characteristics. Tony Fokker was not pleased at all but he focused on the work at hand and developed the V.4 and V.5 prototypes and later the F. I and the Dr. I triplane that we know so well today - the "Red Baron´s" fighter.
    In much the same way as the Germans had also previously "copied" the French Morane Saulnier H into the Pfalz E. I Eindecker, which in turn gave birth to the Fokker E. I, E. II, E. III, and E. IV Eindeckers.

    There is nothing completely new under the sun - everything new is based on other people´s experience. It´s what is generally known as "development".

  6. Richard

    Richard Member


    thanks for the additional info but I got to make one remark;
    Windsock Datafile 59 Pfalz E.I - E.VI notes that Pfalz entered a licence agreement in 1914 to build both the Type L and H.

    It also says the only copies of the French Morane monoplanes were made by Pfalz but I think this isn't correct, the Swedish Thulin factory also made copies(or licence-built?) of the Morane monoplanes; Type B and D.
    Perhaps you can fill me in on this one?

  7. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Morane - Pfalz - Thulin Monoplanes

    Hi Richard,

    You obviously read your books from Ray Rimell from cover to cover, and rightly so.
    Yes, you´re quite right - perhaps I used the word "copied" a little carelessly when I meant licence-built. The Pfalz factory was situated in western Germany in the Rhineland, close to the French border and the licence agreement to produce the Morane M at the Pfalz factory, as the Pfalz E. I, was signed in mutual understanding before the outbreak of WW I in 1914, which was not the case later in 1917 with the captured British Sopwith triplanes, which were some of them test flown, by the way, by German pilots sporting the Eisern Kreuz.

    Re. the Thulin licence-built Moranes:
    The earliest period: After an initial trial period, in 1912, of mastering the early French-built Nieuport IV-G aeroplane, called "M1 - Monoplan nr 1" or just "Monoplanet", by Swedish Army aviators, the Swedish air force (The Swedish Flying Corps) was established at Malmen, near Linköping. One original vintage Nieuport IV-G still exists today, in airworthy condition, in the Air Force museum in Linköping and it was last flown in 1962 to mark the 50 year anniversary of the Swedish Air Force.

    Dr Enoch Thulin, the "father of Swedish aviation", who had studied aviation (mainly in France but also in Sweden) and obtained a flying licence, started the Thulin company in 1914 in Landskrona, in the region of Skåne, in southern Sweden and Ljungbyhed airfield became the first southern base for early Swedish aviation.

    The Morane high-winged parasol type L monoplane is equivalent to a licence-built Thulin D - a two-seater in this version, which was also used by the Finnish air force, in winter with skis instead of wheels. The first D plane was donated to Finland by the von Rosen family, who by the way had a blue swastika against a white background as their family herald symbol - this later became the national insignia for Finland.
    This plane was also licence-built, by the way, by the Pfalz factory under the name Pfalz A.I.

    The Morane Saulnier MS 3L monoplane is equivalent to the low-winged Thulin B. It was fitted with the same kind of half-moon shaped nose cowling as the Morane L. The Thulin B had a Le Rhône 60 hp engine.

    A further development of the original MS 3L, The Thulin type K looks very much like the Thulin B (also low-winged) but the cowling was more open and completely rounded and the engine was more powerful (a Thulin-modified Le Rhône 90 hp with improved air intakes).
    The Thulin K was also the very first plane to be equipped with Fokker-type synchronized machine guns. Thus, it is regarded as Sweden´s first fighter airplane, even if it never took part in any air combat. Only two were delivered to the new air force (nrs 21 and 23), one Thulin kept as a personal plane for further development (he was killed in it in 1919, shortly after take-off) and no less than fifteen were delivered to the Dutch air force. The two that were delivered to the Swedish air force both crashed in the hands of the army aviator Lieutenant Nils Rodéhn, in 1918 and 1919, who extensively used this type. Thus, there is unfortunately no original plane of this type in existence in Sweden today.
    This type of plane was also manufactured under license by the Pfalz company, as the Pfalz E.I. Similarly, Fokker started production of their Eindeckers.
    In contrast, the Thulin type E and L symmetrical biplanes were not licence-built but were original Enoch Thulin designs. Due to relatively inferior flying characteristics and the fact that there were no immediate need for fighters in Sweden, only four were manufactured and delivered.

    I hope you got some help here.

    best regards,
    Bengt :grin:
  8. Richard

    Richard Member

    Hi Bengt,

    this sure helped me.

    I also found a great site on Swedish early aviation history; and a movieclip of a flightschool and the Thulin factory in 1918 at (beware, about 11 minutes of streaming media)

    I have a special interest in the Thulin K as I already planned to make a model of it to fit the LeRhone engine to. Problem is that I only have a couple of not so good drawings and pictures of the plane in Dutch service(with the naval air service) are very scarce. Well, perhaps some time in the future I'll stumble accross the missing info....:)

  9. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Thulin Type K Aeroplane Info

    Hi Richard,

    What a coincidence - I have just ordered a 1/5th scale model of this A/C from England today, and I am searching for info as I am writing this!

    This is what I have found so far - more to come as I find it:
    This is the model I have ordered (in kit form),: designed by the well-known and respected scale model designer and R/C scale model champion builder & flyer Göran Kalderén, who unfortunately passed away a couple of years ago. NB! There is also an English PDF-file for the model builder on this page, with lots of detailed pictures and a short text.
    Here is the same model, from a Swedish retailer (now closed due to illness): K 1916.htm
    A link page to early Swedish aviation:
    Some Thulin K data and a side view:
    A book club for Swedish military history (in Swedish):

    I might also find some drawings or sketches that I can scan - what is your e-mail, by the way? Send me a PM if you like to, so that we can exchange ideas and links.

    Bengt :smile:

    PS. I just found these two pages:
    1. A very informative page on early Swedish army aviation:
    2. This is a very good book-series of complete A/C drawings by Swedish artist and illustrator Björn Karlström (I have four of them):

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