Making my own model

Discussion in 'Gallery & Designs' started by fimdan, Jun 11, 2004.

  1. fimdan

    fimdan Member

    I did some work on the tail.

    I took me some time to make the rudder developable but I did it. Rhino can be a pain in the neck, especially with unrolling surfaces. Tonight I will try to make it moveable.

  2. Gil

    Gil Active Member


    I forgot to mention the use of clear packing or regular skotch tape. The only disadvantage is it will not "hold" a position like the aluminium or copper tapes. The skotch tape has a non-gloss surface allowing it to "blend" in with most model finishes.

    Best regards, Gil
  3. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Rhino?? A pain in the neck?!! How so?? You're talking about the program I love!!

    What's the problem, Fimdan?

    Tim P
  4. fimdan

    fimdan Member


    Love is not only about nice feelings. I know rhino a bit but I cannot force it to unroll parts for me sometimes. Do you know the secret to unrolling a part the first time. If so, please let me know. It would save me a lot time.

    wunwinglow, were you able to find anything about Yak 3?

  5. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Unrolling in Rhino. hmmmm. Which version are you using, 2 or 3? 3 has much improved unrolling commands, but either way, successful unrolling is dependant on the original construction of the surface. Any hint of a compound curved surface will fox it, in v2 especially so. You really do have to design the model as unrollable right from the beginning, and make sure your modelling is crisp and accurate. Tiny faults such as snapping to the wrong element might put a tiny kink in an edge, which you miss as it is so small. Then you use the curve to generate a surface and even though you can't see it, has a ripple caused by the edge kink, and then it won't unroll.

    If you want to send me a sample part I would happily have a look at it for you.

    Ref the Yak stuff, still looking. I have a horrible feeling I leant the book I have in mind to one of my model clud buddies, but I have a few shelves to check yet!

    Speak soon,

    Tim P
  6. fimdan

    fimdan Member

    Hello again

    I have version 3.

    My experience with Rhino is rather limited. So far, I have done what you see in this post . Two thing that discourage me from making models is unrolling and not having good plans.

    I relize that certain parts cannot be unrolled. Now ,I am trying to make them from small, less complicated pieces. This approach should be ok. I will just have to do more work in Corel Draw.

    Thanks for your message.

    I will post more pics soon

  7. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

  8. charliec

    charliec Active Member

    There is a specialised tape that bookbinders use which is much thinner than regular Scotch tape, very tough, clear with a matt finish. Might be an
    alternative to using general purpose tapes.

    This is one of these:

    3M Book Tape

    "A transparent tape for repairing, reinforcing, protecting, covering bound edges and surfaces of books, magazines, and pamphlets. Also for hinging and laminating. Will not dry or crack. May be marked with solvent based ink."


  9. fimdan

    fimdan Member

    I did not know there were so many kinds of tapes around :D :wink:
    What I am actually thinking about is putting tape inside of the vertical stabilizer. I will also try to make a hinge from very thin drinking straws I found. I think I will put hinges whenever space permits and the smaller areas will be attached with pieces of tape

    I still need to finish vertical stabilizer. More tomorrow. I am going to bad now.

    Thanks again

  10. NOBI

    NOBI Active Member

    Fimdan, sorry to late participated ;) your job is very great looking i have use Rhino to make 3dmodel is very easy and not use much time for create a model. unrollsrf from version 3 is much improve from version 2 as Tim said but unrollsrf have limit at part u can unroll must be a developable surface. if u use "loft" function to create your fuselage shape u will see option to make with your loft's job...there is a developable surface available for your choose but sometime if u loft with developable option...your part will be crazy and not look like u want it to be (Rhino's manual said). maybe faster if u create 3dmodel in Rhino and use pepakura for unfold job ;)
  11. fimdan

    fimdan Member

    Here is something that I could not unroll no matter what I tried - the front section of the vertical stabilizer. No matter how I created the surface, the program failed to unroll it, even if I made it developable!!!! Finally I decided to divide everything into smaller pieces and develop them separately. The picture shows how that worked. Now I just need to take those pieces to Corel, combine them, and ask the divine to make it fit nicely :)

    Or maybe you guys would have done it in a simpler way? Let me know if you think I made it too complicated.



    The rudder unrolled fine even though it has a very similar structure.
  12. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Hi FimDan,

    yes, complexity; I think you answered your own question. When you design in Rhino, you have to remember you are designing parts for your model, NOT a model of an real aircraft which you will then pull apart and make a model from the bits. Subtle distinction I know, but important. If everything is going to developable, you will usually have to compromise the design where the real aircraft has compound surfaces. The fin is a good example where the filleted areas cannot be unfolded. I'd be inclined to make the fin from a flat plate, adjust the lower edge where it meets the fuselage to make the curved surfaces as best you can by curling the paper when you assembly it. Even if you do get a set of surfaces from Rhino from a more complex 3D model, the chances of you cutting the parts out and assembling them as accurately as your Rhino model are slim, to say the least.

    Far more important would be to make your assembly break-down match the assembly of the original machine, in terms of panel lines, breaks in the lines of the bodywork, at the firewall and so on. Even if you have to reduce the fidelity to certain fairings and fillets, the majority of the model will'match' the original and keep its character.

    It is always worth studying real aircraft, and other modelling subject, to see how they were made. Most are actually made from pieces that are in themselves quite simple. If you can replicate that, all the better!

    With Rhino, you might find you get better results if you make surfaces from simple construction methods, but over-size, then trim them to shape. This is usually better than trying to model the shape directly from its outlines. A good tip is look at the order of the commands on the drop-down menues. They are ordered from top to bottom, in terms of how 'robust' they are.


    Creating a plane is easy and works every time. Lofting, sweeping and revolving work nearly every time. Curve networks are better than a point grid, and while extrusions work nearly every time, drapes can get a bit messy. You will have no doubt noticed, unrolling developable surfaces is RIGHT AT THE BOTTOM!! Almost...

    Oh, I feel another tutorial coming on! I'll see what I can put together.

    You asked about decent plans; what aircraft subjects are you looking out for?

    Best wishes,

    Tim P
  13. fimdan

    fimdan Member

    Hey thanks for the long advice.

    You are right that, so far, I was trying to design a model as if I was building a real aircraft. Before I give up on my way of doing things I want to see how all this fits together. I printed all the parts for the tail and I will try to assemble them soon.

    About compound surfaces. How can you unroll a sphere in Rhino? If I am not mistaken, the manual says that a sphere cannot be unrolled. I know that one way to do it is using simple drawing technique (dividing sphere into a series of cone frustums ). How do you deal with spheres?

    A tutorial would be very helpful

    Thanks for all the help

  14. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Yes, you can 'reduce' a sphere ( or any curved surface) to a series of sweeps which can then be individually unrolled. The fewer the number of sweeps, the easier the design is to assemble, but the cruder it will look. One of the main skills in designing paper models is judging how many such sweeps you need to balance ease and accuracy of assembly, with not straying from the subjects shape and character. Alternatively, you could use your Rhino model to generate a mesh, then use Pepakura ( ) to flatten the mesh. Pepakura will also add tabs, distribute parts on a page and loads of other things too. Great little program! But it works with meshes, not NURBS surfaces. You have to get into mesh formation from surfaces to get the best out of that!

    Tim P
  15. NOBI

    NOBI Active Member

    Hi There,

    Like Tim said, design papermodel is not thinking about make it look real but must thinking about how to unroll or unfold too. Create mesh from Rhino and unfold in pepakura is best way for u, fimdan. in pepakura u can decide where to cut and where to fold not like unrollsrf from Rhino.

    Another solution...have u thinking about do a mesh only 1 side and unroll? becasue aircraft is symestic and u can do only left or right side and mirror it. i think if u do only 1 side at tail...must easy to use unrollsrf more than make full side and hard to unrollsrf (i give up with unrollsrf long time ago and use pepakura did unfold job for me but Rhino still easy to make mesh for me)
  16. fimdan

    fimdan Member

    Hey NOBI

    Thanks for all the hints. Your second suggestion is exactly what I am doing. I am only taking half of the tail and trying to unroll it.

    I just printed all the part of the tail and started doing some assembling. Dimension-wise, everything looks fine. I will post some pictures soon (unless something goes terribly wrong).

    Pepakura is a nice piece of software but I am not going to use it yet. I am sticking to Rhino for as long as I can. I just don't feel like paying for more software right now.



    PS The attached picture shows the unrolled tail.
  17. fimdan

    fimdan Member

    and the next pictures with the tail assembled ... Everything was within tolerable limits. The only thing that makes me unhappy now is the size of my model. It will be about 9.5 inches long (~24 cm)
  18. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Provided the line data is in a vector format (CorelDraw, Illustrator etc) just scale it to whatever size you want. You can scale bitmaps images, but increase their size and they get all blurry. Ugh! That is why I always use vector data.

    What size do you want your model to be? bear in mind any allowances for paper thickness will need adjusting if you change the model size.

    Tim P
  19. fimdan

    fimdan Member

    Hi, yes vector based objects are wonderful. I will not change the scale of my model (1:33) because I want to have it "compatible" with models from MM. I am a big fan of MM. When I moved out of Poland long ,long time ago, this was pretty much the only maker of paper models.

  20. NOBI

    NOBI Active Member

    Wonderful unfold job, that will be a very good looking model so far. 1/33 is standard size of papermodel. u said u r MM's Fan and u thinking to use butt joint like MM? have u assemble Modelart before? i think connection strip is good method than butt ;)

Share This Page