Lots of model piracy

Discussion in 'Off Topic - Card Modeler Lounge' started by Paragon, Apr 19, 2011.

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  1. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member


    In terms of Star Wars, Lucas had announced that he was comfortable with fan using his IP for not-for-profit fan productions. The new owners, Disney, have yet to make a statement to the contrary. So it expressly NOT piracy to create templates for a papercraft X-Wing, but is expressly piracy for someone to take those plans and sell them.
  2. blaar

    blaar Member

    I was merely looking for an example. Perhaps I did not choose a good one. My point is not that you are not allowed to use Star Wars models, but in general paper model creators can't complain if their works are sold since the model was not theirs to begin with.

  3. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Active Member

    You are absolutely correct blaar, though it's not only the actual design(no matter who owns the copyright) that get's stolen.

    Also taken advantage of and stolen is the hard work and time put into creating it. Sometimes months or even years worth of work. And that is not owned by the original creator/company...

    If any model could be created, unfolded and finalized in five minutes, I seriously doubt there would be so much discussion on the topic.
    Granted there would also be less pirates, but you get the gist... :D
  4. imcold

    imcold Member

    Blaar, you just defined most of the existing paper models as piracy.
  5. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator

    That's exactly the point. Why are we making movie-related paper models? Because we are fans and we are creative. This is our way to express our love for a special franchise. We do not make them to become rich, we make them for entertainment and fun only. THEY are stealing not only the fruits of our creativity but everything that has been involved in the making of the model, our dedication to the movies and the hobby itself.
  6. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator

    If it is seen that way, even Canon is guilty of piracy because they offer a free model of the Eiffel tower, Neuschwanstein Castle and the Tower Bridge. :eek:
  7. blaar

    blaar Member

    If you do not have the rights to re-produce the model in any way, then yes, you are transgressing the copyright law.

    All I am saying is that I totally understand what most of you are going through. Like TC said, it takes months, sometimes years to create a paper model, just to have some else make money out of your hard work and dedication / love for that particular universe / movie etc.

    I just want the modelers to think about something. Many complain and say : Hey, they are pirating MY model !!!!

    Yes, you may have created that paper model, but the actual model was not yours to start with. You merely "borrowed it without permission".

    I am not trying to be difficult or anything, just saying that you can't claim something to be yours when it never was yours to begin with.

    Also why would it bother you if your model is being sold. I would feel extremely proud if any one will ever sell any of my models. Then at least I know they are good. :)

    NB : But then again I be may wrong. I do not know the copyright laws at all. sign1
  8. blaar

    blaar Member

    Exactly........you see the word in your sentence FREE !!!

    I bet you if Canon was selling those and they made a killing doing so, who ever owned the rights to those buildings / structures would sue there ass because they do not have the rights to do so. :)
  9. vbsargent

    vbsargent Member

    I can completely understand the frustration of having your designs used and sold without permission. However blaar is correct (at least in the US) copyright law prohibits unauthorized distribution of copyrighted materials. Which is a large majority of models seen here. As far as the Eiffel Tower etc- public structures are an interesting deviation from other copyrighted material. I'm not terribly sure that there is a copyright associated with them- and if there were it has long since expired and entered the public domain- at least in the cases of the Eiffel tower, Neuschwanstein Castle and the Tower Bridge.

    But how can your love and dedication to a subject be stolen? Can they rob you of the thrill of an X-wing flying down the trench, Starbuck blasting the living hell outta the Cylons, or Ripley confronting the alien queen? That is something that you steal from yourself.

    Years ago Bhuddist Tibetan monks were finishing up a mandala (sand painting) in San Francisco's Asian Art Museum. Just s they were putting the finishing touches on 4 weeks of work, a woman jumped over the velvet ropes and trampled the artwork, completely destroying it in front of 200 spectators. The monks remained calm and serene throughout. They later swept up the remains and scattered the sand in the sea to symbolize the impermanence of everything. At another one a child ducked under the ropes and played in the sand much to the horror of his parents. The monks smiled and laughed as their creation was destroyed by the playful child.

    The lesson is that we cannot control the actions of others, we can only control ourelves and how we feel and react to those actions. Do we harbor resentment and let that fester, or take it in stride and let the negative feelings go?

    Now that being said- I am still PI$$ED that my LARP rules were used without any credit to me at the Wild West Con in Arizona and are still being used almost verbatim by the same weasel! :rolleyes:
  10. Millenniumfalsehood

    Millenniumfalsehood Active Member

    Look guys, I've sat in on a panel at a convention discussing art in the fan community with both lawyers and company reps on said panel, and one of the questions that popped up was concerning distributed artwork, which paper models fall under.

    As far as IP law is concerned, we're actually in the green for the most part. From their point of view, as long as we don't try to market our "art", then we're actually paying homage rather than "stealing" IP. They see it as free advertising basically, and certainly not any more criminal than the millions of pieces of fan art on DeviantART and countless other places around the internet.

    So let's give this "we're no better than pirates" and "unauthorized distribution of copyrighted materials" bull crap a rest, okay? That myth is entirely too pervasive and goes against common sense.
  11. goodduck

    goodduck Active Member

    So, I guess that made everyone that ever downloaded models are guilty of accessory of piracy? And designers are guilty of trafficking distribution of stolen good?
  12. Dented Rick

    Dented Rick Human

    Damned if you do, Damned if you don't?
  13. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member

    Buildings completed before 1990 are not copyright protected.

    Those constructed after 1990 are protected by copyright for 70 years after the death of the author, or 95-120 years if a corporate work.
  14. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator

  15. McGee

    McGee Newbie

    THANK you... THAT was a great answer. Thank you.
  16. McGee

    McGee Newbie

    If I take the time to do a water color of the eiffel tower or a few buildings of a french villa, and paint it in such a way that it can be made into an artistic rendition paper model of the eiffel tower, then that is most certainly not piracy, just because i have used an existing historical public domain feature that was originally designed by someone somewhere down in the corridors of time...if I paint an oil painting of a UH-60 Blackhawk and sell it at an art show...that is MY work of a painting of a helicopter..any helicopter, and Sikorsky cant touch that because it's not piracy. It's MY work. If people want to be anal retentive to the rediculous degree about it, we'd all have to completely make up our own stuff that has never ever ever been made by anyone else ever.
    Don't get me wrong...seeing people like this jack hole at Alice or aliexpress or ebay etc do the crap they do really pisses me of bad, but i disagree with a few of the details of piracy expressed.
    I dont agree that someone taking the time to do their OWN ARTwork representation of an existing thing can be considered that. It's 3 dimensional pen and ink or water color or cgi artwork......for example....there are a LOT of mmodels out there from the Star Trek universe that arent even considered canon, but are made by fans to contribute to that universe, but there are no rights owned by those, EXCEPT by the one person who designed THAT particular hybrid of 4 different ST ships, with even some of their own imagined stuff thrown in that never existed on ANY ST ship. Just my 6 dollars worth.
  17. spaceagent-9

    spaceagent-9 Right Hand Man and Confidant

    if you;
    1. erase authorship from a work of art and sell it for profit.
    2. sell a work of art without the author's written permission.
    3. include any kind of work of art, without written permission from the author, to entice the purchase of an item for any kind of financial gain as a package in the purchase.
    4. create financial hardship on the author by sales of copies of their work of art, or create a market of purchase of copies of their work of art without an agreed part of profit that the author participates in, or use their art as a banner or logo for sales promotion, and create financial gain without the author's permission.

    that's pretty much it right there, free paper models are free. you can make your own mods, present them, but once a person, takes money for that free art, or uses it as enticement to purchase other services or items, that person who does that, is committing a crime. you must have an agreement with the author to use the art if you are making money. a free paper model or piece of art is not FREE TO SELL FOR YOUR OWN POCKET $$$$
  18. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator

    Allen knows I'm damned! :)
  19. McGee

    McGee Newbie

    Hello everyone. I wanted to take a moment to sincerely apologize for getting a bit enthusiastic on my piracy rant. I just reread it and actually am pretty ashamed at my words. Note to myself....."re read your replies 10 times over, and let the reasoning for being more gracious take care of the need to reply in a more gracious way...or not at all. "
    I apologize for the unnecessary outburst. No excuses. :)
  20. spaceagent-9

    spaceagent-9 Right Hand Man and Confidant

    artists, so sensitive, so repentant and so intense, I doubt there will ever be a compromise to ''giving credit where credit is due.''
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