Discussion in 'HO Scale Model Trains' started by zachary, Jul 14, 2007.

  1. zachary

    zachary Member

    hello all me and my dad did some cleaning today and found out the true space i can use for a layout and its a to my standars huge 9 by 20 and will be starting my layout soon but still need a trackplan
    my main industries are cement coal and grain with a runthrough of intermodal my theme is cajon pass bnsf is the road name i would also like a yard with repair servecing plant so thenks in abvance zachary flowe
  2. UP SD40-2

    UP SD40-2 Senior Member

    Looking forward to seeing the progress Zach:thumb: .
    :deano: -Deano
  3. Triplex

    Triplex Active Member

    With Cajon Pass, UP is going to be involved as well...
  4. zachary

    zachary Member

    thats kinda what i was shooting for cause i like both the bnsf and up
  5. Triplex

    Triplex Active Member

    I'm trying to rough out a plan right now. I just need to know one thing: How long will your trains be?
  6. zachary

    zachary Member

    twelve car intermodel and twenty car coal drags
  7. Ralph

    Ralph's for fun!

    Ah! As usual things are a-brewin' trackplan-wise on The Gauge! I sometimes see trackplanning as a hobbby in itself! (and a good one!)
    We have some excellent minds for routing track here. Thanks for helping out with some inspirations Triplex! Enjoy this fun time of planning Zachary!
  8. zachary

    zachary Member

    thanks ralph
  9. Triplex

    Triplex Active Member

    That should be manageable (I was initially assuming slightly longer, and having a bit of trouble). This isn't going to be a simple plan, though.
  10. zachary

    zachary Member

    well they may grow to 20 car intermodel and 30 car coal drags
  11. pgandw

    pgandw Active Member


    Hate to always being the one raining on your parade, but... While a 9x20 ft space is bigger than the 14 x 11 basement room I'm going to get for my mr work bench, computer office, and layout, I model a much older era. In my initial plans, I figure the biggest sidings I can fit with the kind of track plan I want is about 4ft. 48" (engine and 5 cars) isn't much of a train even for 1900, so I'm having to revisit the plan.

    In your case, let's assume you put all your passing sidings or staging parallel to the 20 ft wall, you allow 30" for your turns in the corners (max 28" radius), and 12" at each end of the siding for a #6 turnout. That means 20ft - 5ft - 2ft = 13ft maximum siding length. Your intermodal train of 12 cars might fit - you would have to measure - but won't be any longer than that, and may well be substantially shorter.

    Reality is that curve radius and train length control how much track can fit in your space. But the size of the space will really limit how big a radius or how long a train is even practical.

    Measure your desired train length in feet and inches - couple it up on the floor in a line in your space, and allow room for the curves and turnouts as you approach the walls. Take a tape measure to the train, and see how few cars (especially long modern ones) you can really have in a train.

    Just my thoughts, your choices
  12. zachary

    zachary Member

    well there is just one problem with actuly mesuring the train i dont have any cars or any of the locos i want to run the only thing i have is an athearn sd50 and a digitrax zepery and the dcc chip for the engine
  13. Triplex

    Triplex Active Member

    I've got that plan I was working on finished. Unfortunately, it's very complicated. It also doesn't exactly match your specs.

    The bottom side can be against a wall; the top must be clear.

    It is possible to get trains as long as you're talking about in this space. The over-20' tracks in San Bernardino should handle 30-car coal drags.

    There's no real classification yard. San Bernardino is partly-hidden staging. (All turnouts at this end are kept in the open.) Victorville is really just a couple passing sidings; as there's a continuous grade through the town, cars cannot be left on the sidings, only whole trains.

    There's no coal mine because I don't know of any in the Cajon Pass area. The industries shown are actual ones from the locations. Some prototype shots:

    RailPictures.Net Photo » Burlington Northern Santa Fe GE C44-9W (Dash 9-44CW) The glass plant.
    RailPictures.Net Photo » Burlington Northern Santa Fe EMD GP35 The cement plant.
    RailPictures.Net Photo » Southwest Portland Cement EMD SDP35 The cement plant switcher, an SDP35.
    RailPictures.Net Photo » Cargill EMD GP9 The Cargill switcher, a "torpedo tube" GP9.

    18" minimum curves and #4 turnouts are used at Cargill and SWPC. Those are a little small for the SWPC engine, but an SDP35 is short for a 6-axle. it should manage.

    At San Bernardino, right-hand running is normal, like in most places. However, at the scissors crossover in Devore, trains change to left-hand running. This allows them to use the gentler grade for the climb, as in reality.

    The grades are severe. The short segment of 4% along the bottom is much shorter than most trains, so it won't affect them so much. The 4% grade through Sullivan's Curve is on the downhill track. However, the continuous 4% through Victorville will seriously affect trains. To reduce this grade, it would be possible to not model as far as the flyover at Frost. This would remove the need to go lower than 4" above the base elevation. However, I just felt a need to include Frost, to show the return to right-hand running, and just because it looks good.

    I have marked space for transitions into and out of grades. On the right-hand side, not all grades are marked because they would make the plan incomprehensible. In fact, I hope all the stacked loops are understandable. Basically, the East End Loop is the lowest level, then the San Bernardino staging. There's a single helix lap above this. Note also that the San Bernardino loops "hump" to get over the East End loop.

    Red dashed lines are retaining walls. Rock formations and rock faces are also shown. I do realize that rather more vertical scenery is necessary than on the real Cajon Pass.

    Scenically, Victorville should look right in proximity to San Bernardino because it's in the place of the other yard. There are two BNSF yards in town, "A Yard" and "B Yard." There is a flyover, though in real life it's single track and used by Metrolink. Metrolink, incidentally, is not included in this plan.

    The wye is part of "old Summit", isn't it? Anyway, there's another option. By replacing the #3 wye turnouts with standard #6s, you can substitute the car setout track that's a feature of the real Summit. It would have a 24" radius.

    I beleive the Santa Fe San Bernardino Shops were closed many years ago, but I included them anyway because shops were a requirement.
  14. zachary

    zachary Member

    thank you triplex for the plan
  15. Triplex

    Triplex Active Member

    And one more thing: I didn't include the parallelling UP (ex-SP) Palmdale Cutoff because I didn't have room, and UP runs over the modelled line anyway.

    You have to learn to think outside the box. I've discovered that wrapping passing sidings around corner or end curves is often the best course of action.
    These are the train lengths I calculated:

    Assume Bethgon Coalporters for coal, which are 48' cars. Allow another 4' each for couplers. For intermodal, I assumed Husky Stacks: standalone 72' cars with 53' wells. Again, I allowed 4' for couplers. Many stack cars are shorter than this because they have shorter wells, are articulated, or both. I had to assume the longest. Then, for modern locomotives like SD70s or Dash 9s, I took 72' + 4' for couplers. No cabooses, since this is modern era. Then divide by 87, and...

    1 loco, 12 intermodal: 11'5"
    2 locos, 20 coal: 13'9"
    2 locos, 20 intermodal: 19'3"
    3 locos, 30 coal: 20'7"

    EDIT: I just realized I made a mistake in the plan. The San Bernardino loops can be level and still clear the East End. I was confused by my own stacked-loop configuration.

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