Latest Weathering Attempt for Critique Please

Discussion in 'Scratchin' & Bashin'' started by Herc Driver, Oct 1, 2006.

  1. Herc Driver

    Herc Driver Active Member

    Ok...employing the Deano-method of weathering, this an older Bachmann boxcar, weathered by grey primer (spray can), alchohol to clean the sides, wash with water/india ink, then final wash with water/india ink/rusty paint color.

    I was shooting for a lightly weathered look, moderate use, normal wear and tear.

    Secondly, when were roof walks removed from boxcars? I'm modeling more current era but wondering if the roof walks were removed from the older boxcars to comply with the regulation(?) change.

    Where can I improve - and be honest.

    Attached Files:

  2. N Gauger

    N Gauger 1:20.3 Train Addict

    Not bad :) Nice!!!!
  3. doctorwayne

    doctorwayne Active Member

    Looks good to me, although a bit heavier than everyday use might incur. However, if you're modelling the current era, I suppose a PC car in everyday use would be rather heavily weathered. :D To be completely fair, though, the shortcomings of my computer monitor have been mentioned several times, so perhaps I'm not qualified to even comment: I know what colour the car should be, but I'm seeing grey. Grey!!? Time to go shopping.:rolleyes:
    The ICC permitted the removal of roofwalks beginning in 1966, although I'm not sure when it became mandatory.

  4. shaygetz

    shaygetz Active Member

    Oct. 1972...aaaaaahhhhhhhcccccccckkkkkkkk, I'm a rivet counter.....:rolleyes: :D

    Gotta love PC "Bankruptcy Green":thumb:
  5. yellowlynn

    yellowlynn Member

    The only way that car can be improved is by moving MY tracks

    W O W

  6. Herc Driver

    Herc Driver Active Member

    doctorwayne - may I respectfully suggest you check your settings sir...that Penn Central is in fact greenish. (I was running out of "practise" cars and that boxcar was next on the list. But it is the Bachmann version of PC green which may not be prototypical.) But you're right that if this was a PC car still in use (are there any???) it would be in far worse shape than what I weathered. What I'm trying to get is a realistic weathering for an Nscale car. That seems to be the biggest problem...getting the weathering to look realistic for Nscale...not too heavy or overdone. But I'm finding that I really need to get an airbrush for any hope of putting on a fine enough mist of paint. Everything I do by hand seems too heavy. I plan on weathering more up-to-date boxcars using this technique and really want to get it right before moving on...but am open to other weathering techniques. I've also visited the weathering websites - but found they offered little in advice or good "how-to" instructions. Mostly they showcased really great looking work. Thanks for everyone's reply so far.
  7. doctorwayne

    doctorwayne Active Member

    Hey, Herc Driver, I know that the boxcar is Jade Green, it's just this darn old steam-powered monitor that makes it look grey. Every once in a while, the red component will kick in, but it's usually absent. If you like the general colour of the weathering, try using the same colours, but with a greater percentage of thinner added. That should make the colours less opaque.

  8. Herc Driver

    Herc Driver Active Member

    Ahhhh (sound of light bulb illuminating over head) good suggestion doctor. :thumb: Funny you'd mention that as I just read that on a weathering website. Also I should have improved the amount of rust around the door hinges and anywhere a foot would be placed and wear off the paint. I took that picture today in full sun hoping to best show any problems with the weathering paint coverage. When looking at the car on the layout, it appears a bit more gray and the reds of the rust mixture I made are evident...the sun seemed to wash the colors out a bit. The quality work you've posted are really instructive. I'm trying for the same results - I'm guessing that your weathered cars were done with an airbrush? I haven't taken the plunge yet, but unless I can capture the "look" I want by hand soon, I'm going to buy an airbrush and try all this again.

    Thanks for the "moving" note yellowlynn...:D

    As a side note...I like taking a picture and posting them here for review. You can really see you're work in a different perspective when the image is magnified and posted for all to see. Each time I look at my Nscale cars, they look fine since my eyes just can't pick up all the finer detail and variation in weathering colors when holding the car at arm's length or on the layout. But taking a magnified picture plainly shows all the mistakes and areas to improve.:wave:
  9. EngineerKyle

    EngineerKyle Member

    Herc driver..

    Looks pretty good. You really haven't gotten the critiques you asked for. May I make a suggestion?

    Everything you've done is nice. Why not add a little rust?

    Rust seems to look especially good on blue cars, in my opinion. This rust in my signature pic is some dabs of Tamiya acrylic brown, followed by a wash of Testors oil based brown. The final touch is some rather red chalk line power. I scrubbed on with a stiff, dry brush.
  10. doctorwayne

    doctorwayne Active Member

    For weathering, I usually use a variety of techniques. The first boxcar, below, was first given a wash of dirty black PollyS (no longer made). This is usually a Dixie cup of water and one or two brushloads of paint from the bottle, plus a couple drops of liquid dish detergent. I flow tjhe paint on, then stand the car on its wheels, letting the wash run down the sides. As it collects along the bottom edge, I use a paper towel to wick up the excess: you have to stay on top of this step, because if it starts to dry around the edges of the "blob", it'll leave an unprotoypical ring. Usually small amounts will collect, and dry, along the seam and rivet lines, becoming heavier farther down the carside. On some cars, prior to the wash, I'll take a fine brush and some of the unthinned paint, and run a very thin line down each of the panel seams, then follow immediately with the wash. Other cars may get a brown wash, either alone or in conjunction with the black. I use PollyScale paint nowadays for washes. All cars also get airbrush weathering after the washes: I prefer Floquil for airbrushing, and usually mix it using between 70% and 90% thinner.


    I've also done many reefers using the techniques outlined above. However, this car was done completely with an airbrush. The first step is to make a "mask", using cereal boxboard. I use a piece higher than the height of the car, and cut inverted "vees", extending from the bottom edge all the way up to the eaves, and on the same spacing as the rivet lines and/or body panels. This also includes the door edges. The bottom of the vees, for HO, needn't be wider than 1/4". I place the car in the spray booth, then line up the vees with the rivet lines, keeping the mask away from touching the car. A couple of quick passes horizontally, or, if you want the weathering a little more distinct, vertically, at each vee, then remove the mask and do a quick pass along the bottom edge of the car, including the trucks, using the same colour. This helps to blur any sharp edges. The closer the mask is held to the body, the sharper the line of weathering will be, so it's best to keep the mask from touching the carside. I use a similar mask on the car ends to duplicate the effects of wheel spray from adjacent cars. I have about two dozen carside masks, to suit different manufacturer's various cars, each on labelled as to its use. The balance of the weathering is various shades of dust, grime, and dirt, whatever happens to be on the shelf. When doing the lower part of the sides, it helps to roll the car as you spray: this keeps the dirt effect similar all around the circumference of the wheels.


    This car was done similar to the reefer, above, except the first step was to spray the entire carbody with a very heavily thinned boxcar colour. It doesn't have to be the exact same colour as the car, just in a similar shade. This helps to soften the starkness of the lettering, and, in the case of a fairly new car, could be followed with a little road grime and dust, then left at that. This car, however, did get the full treatment, same as the reefer.


    By the way, most of my cars are lettered with dry transfers, which have a somewhat waxy residue around them: not very compatable with a water-based wash, so all are Dulcoted before weathering. Same goes for those lettered with decals, to kill the shine. Most factory paint jobs also get Dulcoted before weathering, as it seems to help the washes adhere better. I never Dulcote after weathering, as I feel it makes the surface textures too uniform. The cars don't get handled too much, and when they are, clean hands are a must.

  11. UP SD40-2

    UP SD40-2 Senior Member

    Herc, man i feel for you, what i mean is weathering in N scale IS tough;) . i WAS into N scale for a couple years, to darn small for me, though YOU and others do quite well with it:thumb: . **as far as the weathering goes, Hmm, i think for N scale maybe you might want to try NOT using the gray, see what that looks like. heres some things you might want to try. get a cheap car, tape the sides in half, and tape off the top, now you can try 5 different ways to weather, on the same car!:thumb: try dry brushing dirt & rust, if you use water based paint you can take it back off;). in N scale, try washing the car with your ink(or paint)and alcohol solution, then IMMEDIATELY wipe it off, buy doing this it will make the rivets and such stand out, but not make the car look to dirty. GET PICS OF CARS, try and simulate them. when i did the tutorial, it worked well for me, but i am in HO. and the MAIN reason i did the tutorial was so you guys would attempt to do this stuff:thumb:, HEY, I AM BY FAR, NO WEATHERING EXPERT!!!, i too am learning as i gotooth1 . i hope some of this will help:thumb: . Herc, you ARE definitely on track, stay with it, keep experimenting, IT WILL COME!!:thumb: :D -Deano
  12. Herc Driver

    Herc Driver Active Member

    Kyle - very good suggestion that I will try...thank you!

    doctor - Thanks for all the great tips! I'm going to try those too and post the results. Allowing the ink wash to drip was not something I really tired - I quickly wiped off the india ink wash fearing it would darken the car too much, on the contrary, I could barely keep the ink on the car even after wiping with alcohol beforehand. What I've appreciated about your weathered cars is that they look used but not me, it's just the right amount of grime. Plus the extra detailing on the boxcars adds so much as does the weathering of the wheel/trucks.

    Deano - I actually think using the spray paint from the can worked ok...the only change I did was to spray short of the car and allow the spray "cloud" to hit the car's side after bouncing off the cardboard box bottom I was using. That way, most of the paint hit the box and a small cloud hit the car. Unfortunately in that picture I posted, you can't see the gray at all - but looking at it on the layout right now - it's there (note the gray color of the rapido coupler that used to be jet black). Also, the spray paint gave a base for the rust color to be applied to the wheels. I'm guessing you have to use alcohol on the wheel sets/trucks to get paint to stick to them because up till now, I've been pretty unsuccessful getting paint to stick to the sides of the wheels. But with that gray primer on them, the rust paint mixture grabbed hold and looked pretty good for the first attempt.

    I'll keep experimenting - there's still some B&O covered hoppers in my inventory that are squeeky clean and need some grime.

    If anyone has more suggestions feel free to add them - I really appreciate it!!!
  13. UP SD40-2

    UP SD40-2 Senior Member

    WOW!! Wayne, you posted while i was writing, GREAT examples, and EXCELLENT ADVICE!:thumb: :D -Deano
  14. Herc Driver

    Herc Driver Active Member

    Newest attempt - this time chalks

    Here's a side by side comparison of using chalks, again for your critiques.

    Both NS caboose are made by Con-cor and were bought at the same weathered with chalks using many of the suggestions you all have been kind enough to offer and the other is a like Con-cor car without any weathering for comparison. Overall, for Nscale I seem to get better color control using chalks than paints. (Camera close-ups show more chalk dust than your eye can see when looking at the cars on the layout and both cars photograph lighter in color than they appear on the layout.)

    Comments? Suggestions? Areas to improve?

    Attached Files:

  15. TruckLover

    TruckLover Mack CH613 & 53' Trailer

    It looks great Herc:thumb: :thumb:

    There is a big differance between the 2!!
  16. Herc Driver

    Herc Driver Active Member

    Thanks Josh, I needed a project that had a reference where I could see what progress I was making towards a more prototypical look. I found several examples online of this caboose and tried to mimic the look with chalks instead of paint. Again, these photographs are lighter than the actual car under normal lighting. I'd actually use these caboose except they run horribly. They both need new/better knuckle couplers - the ones installed now worked badly, and the trucks are too tight and won't turn well so they frequently derail. I hope to change both the trucks and the couplers then run them in a NS consist. Yep, the caboose is alive and well in this pike.

    My 8 yr old tried his hand a chalk weathering four B&O covered hoppers - and I'd argue that he did better than I. He put the chalk on thicker than I would, but the finished effect was really good when you see all four strung together. I'll have to post pictures of his work tomorrow.

    I bought three Southern RR 40' boxcars and will try to weather them tomorrow. These are all Atlas cars and have a bit more detailing than the Bachmann cars I've been practising on. We'll see how it goes. If I can approach some of the fine work I've seen on this forum, I'll be satisfied.
  17. UP SD40-2

    UP SD40-2 Senior Member

    Herc, I THINK YOU DONE QUITE WELL!:thumb: i was never that good at chalks:( , but i think YOU have done REAL GOOD with them:thumb: . the caboose DOES NOT look over weathered:thumb: . i REALLY like the steps and trucks!:thumb: :D i say keep going with the chalks;) :D . cant wait to see MORE of your work with chalks:thumb: . THANKS!:D -Deano
  18. SeriousSam

    SeriousSam Member

    Herc, may I make a suggestion on the first car? The inside of the climbing ladder looks too clean. I like the way you did the rundown weathering. Very dirty job. Keep em coming!
  19. Herc Driver

    Herc Driver Active Member

    Chalks=good. Paint= so far, bad for me.

    Good catch Sam...I'm reworking that ladder right now.

    Unfortunately from the picture I took, I didn't show the sun bleaching of the entire roof. Using white, yellow, and orange on the roof, the red colored car looks bleached but not overly sun bleached. The entire car got a dusting of two shades of brown and gray. Some black was used to highlight as was some shades of lighter red steaked down the sides. Rust was used on the trucks.

    Thanks Deano for the words of encouragement. I would like to graduate to using ink/paints, but until I can get an airbrush I'll stick to chalks and using an india ink wash for blackening and highlighting details. As I said, I just bought three identical Southern boxcars and will try to weather each one like a prototypical picture then post the results.

    What's surprised me in doing some research on the right weathering color was how often NS is still using a caboose. I found pictures of them as recent as a month ago. I don't see them around Charlotte, but they're out there and being photographed by trainspotters.
  20. Herc Driver

    Herc Driver Active Member

    Two more for comparison

    Just got these two finished morning. Two matching (Atlas) Southern 40' boxcars - the one on the left is weathered, the other isn't. I was surprised by the color change...using white, and mostly yellow on this burgandy/brown car really worked the trick. The roof lightened well using light tans and yellows. Overall, it looked like the weathered car is about three shades lighter. I'll try tomorrow to take better pictures of the top and all sides for critique. I also worked on a jet black NW boxcar too...with both these projects it seemed like I'd try several colors until hitting that perfect (in my estimation) color that really worked the best, then the car would jump to life and look weathered and used. Started work on a Bachmann GP60 as well...found some great shots of a NS model really used hard that I'm trying to capture. After hours of searching for prototypical examples, it seems there's not a huge variation between almost any car of like color. No matter what the color, they all rust, all get sun bleached, all have their lettering run down the sides, and all have dirty front/rear sections near the couplers.

    Now, after they're they get dull coat sprayed on to "lock" in the chalks?

    (Sorry the pictures are not in better focus...and yes, I'll fix that temporary road soon.)

    Attached Files:

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