Interesting Historic Aircraft Site

Discussion in 'Aircraft & Aviation' started by Fishcarver, Aug 4, 2006.

  1. Fishcarver

    Fishcarver Active Member

  2. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    The Caspian Sea Monster

    Jesus, Fishcarver!

    What a beast - 550 tons of it! Didn´t seem to fly very high, though, but I guess this was the plan.
    I have never seen anything like it before. I´d put it on the same list as the giant Zeps, the Spruce Goose (sorry, the H-4 hercules) and the Dornier Do-X

    The things man can come up with - very impressive. Would make a fine card model . . .

  3. Fishcarver

    Fishcarver Active Member

    Bengt: Also check out the aircraft 3-views at the home page (Unfortunately, none for the ekranoplans)

    I agree: the Caspian Sea Monster would make one H*** of a cardmodel.

    "It'll never fly, Orest".

    "Don't worry, Vilbrov. Flying is nothing. it goes so low, it is undetectable by radar , can carry 500 tons, and also launch cruise missiles."

    You gotta love those Soviets. If it was wierd, they'd build one. If it was BIG and wierd, they'd build several, or even thousands. Who cared if it worked very well? It was a planned economy, after all!

    Tell that to the gunners on the T-72s, the autoloading mechanism for which often tried to stuff the gunners n**z or other fleshy parts into the breech.

    Glad that this post created at least SOME amusement!

  4. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

    Thanks for the link. I've put it in my notes.

    From what I gather the Russian solution to stablity problem was to make ekronoplans big and heavy.
    It seems that WIG tend to do what a kayaker calls an endo. That is it flips upsidedown end-over-end. I'm guessing that making the craft long and heavy solves this "problem". Kayakers consider it a stunt rather than a problem and I've decided to take this approach in my design."
    Goes to show that the difference between a "problem" and a "feature" is one of perception.

    The Russian logic does seem a bit strange. The usual advantage of a ekronaplan over an airplane is that it uses less fuel. If you have to make the craft big and heavy for stability I'd think that advantage would go away.

    Here is another WIG that I found out about. You all probably are already familiar with the Dornier Do X. It was designed as an aircraft but functioned as an ekronaplan. I love the way the fusalage looks like a boat.
  5. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Ground effect, when a wing is operating close to the surface, has a lot of interesting effects, from making an aircraft more efficient, (that is why the DoX flew so low!) to making it difficult to land. The Handley Page Victor had another. Pilot would set it up for an approach, lined up on the runway, coming down the glideslope. As the aircraft neared the runway, ground effect would kick in, the aircraft would pitch up slightly, flare and touch down, all on its own. The only way to mess up the landing was interfere with it!

    Mind you, if you had much of a cross wind.....

    I think big and heavy relates as much to the ekranoplans payload capabilities. Remember a primary function was to deposit heavy armour and troops, getting them VERY quickly across intervening land and sea, under any radar. Think of them as LCAC hovercraft, with 4 times the speed capability.

    Were not Virgin looking at running a service across the English Channel? 10 minutes, side to side. No time table, just turn up, hop on, and wait for a gap in the shipping traffic..... Whoosh! Now they are going Whoosh, but vertically!

    Tim P (wunwinglow)
  6. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

    I ran across a Russian proposal to set up ekranoplans in a worldwide sea-rescue network.

    The reasoning in the proposal is to make the craft big and therefore stable enough to handle highs seas.

    It's an interesting idea but it does show the thinking as being stability rather than getting under the radar.

    I'm not sure how much better it would be than helicopters and tugs stationed in more places. Recently a ship(the Cougar Ace) got fouled up in a balast transfer as she entered US waters near Adak. The Coast Guard sent a cutter all the way from Honolulu. Here is the Coast Guard press release.

    And a photo of the Cougar Ace.

    They also sent two helicopters along with a tanker plane to refuel the helicopters. The tug had to come from Seattle. I'm not sure how this how a ekronaplan would have an advantage in this situation. It would seem to be wisest to have tugs, cutters, and helicopters in Adak and not to bother with designing and stationing ekranoplans large and stable enough to handle the Bering Sea.

    Also in this situation the system in place worked very well.

    Possibly though, the fuel efficiency would give an ekronaplan an advantage over a helicopter for rescue. Speed give the advantage over a cutter. Hmm, helicopter/WIG hybrid?
    I'd love to hear thoughts on how to use WIGs as rescue craft.

  7. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

    Caspian Sea Monsters and Three-Way views

    Thanks, Jim,

    I have occasionally seen links to this site before - for example when I did a search of the Hughes´XF-11 experimental recon A/C (which looked very much like the "ID me" plane that Nobi once had).
    It is an interesting site with rare 3-way views of some rather uncommon A/C, especially for me, because other than cranky old WW I planes I very much like the earliest civilian airliners, such as the Junkers F-13 (which was Swedens first civilian airliner, on floats), the Fokker F. VII-3m, the Ford 'Tri-motor' and peculiar-looking big ones like the Junkers G. 38 (or their J1000-project for that matter), the Hughes´H-4 Hercules, the Dornier Do-X boatplane or this HUGE one, by 30s Art Deco-designer Norman Bel Geddes, the Transatlantic Luxury Airliner boatplane Nr 4 of 1940:

    Russkies, go f--k yourselves . . .
    Bengtski :roll:

    You made some very interesting points and raised some questions, which evoke a lot of thought. Perhaps new, radical ideas can save more lives at sea, if efforts are linked together in new, unorthodox ways . . .
    Some more info on Wing-In-Ground technology, which is very interesting indeed:

    PS. Oh, by the way, Jim. I really like your fine wood carvings. In the winter here in a suburb north of Stockholm we see a lot of the Hairy Woodpeckers, and they look exactly like the one in your pictures. Amazing work! Best, Bengt
  8. barry

    barry Active Member

    Ugly beast

    I think I have modellers block can't seem to stay on one subject......could not resist playing with this one it's ugly but fascinating, maybe one day I will get round to finishing it need a pic of the tailend looking forward.


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