im stuck on my layout

Discussion in 'Track Planning' started by bigsteel, Jan 30, 2007.

  1. bigsteel

    bigsteel Call me Mr.Tinkertrain

    yes my bench work is in place already,the only sides with walls are the top of the pic and the left side,but in the top left coener there will be an opening underneath to reach it.and i not sure yet but i might have magnetic uncouplers in the steel mill.but after i stated this does it look O.K but if i had too id move it out 2 feet from the walls.but since its open on 2 side i think ill be ok
  2. Ralph

    Ralph's for fun!

    Bigsteel, I like your latest plan! The only thing I wonder about is what would have to be a pretty sharp grade on the far right side of the plan where you have the mainline and a siding connecting with the yard before ducking underneath the yard tracks at the top right corner.
    Otherwise the plan allows for continuous running or point to point from yard to branchline and mine with good placement of turnouts.
  3. MadHatter

    MadHatter Charging at full tilt.

    announce1 Love the layout plan!!! :thumb:

    Even if you did battle to reach the back, you could always use a step ladder or something to gain a little hight.
  4. bigsteel

    bigsteel Call me Mr.Tinkertrain

    i thought the same thing about the grade on the inner mainline too that is why right bafter the crossover it starts to drop and im concealing it behind a full length mountain around the back drop so it doesnt have too drop so steeply to clear bench work.i think i figured it to be a 4 percent grade which if you cant see it doesnt matter if it isnt prototypical, right?
    LOL simple answers to complicated problems ,i like that.
  5. bigsteel

    bigsteel Call me Mr.Tinkertrain

    alright here it is with a little more detail.ive added a wash rack and sand and deisel facilities and also added a maintenence house connected to the turntable.where the lines aere near the mine those are driveways for the mining town.ill come back later with some more details like the mountain and stuff.

  6. pgandw

    pgandw Active Member

    Big Steel

    Issues I see:

    - You still are planning on reaches of at least 36" in many places. While you may be able to do that with just benchwork, will you still be able to reach that far to rerail a car over scenery?

    - not much room for an access hatch by the turntable area or the engine servicing area. Hatches need to be a minimum of 18" by 18" (assumes you are thin and will stay that way). You should probably cut them out now before the track plan takes away the space.

    - the engine terminal and servicing is on the opposite side of the layout from the yard. Normally, a way is devised for the main line engines to proceed from the yard arrival/departure track to engine servicing/storage.

    - the yard is not functional as drawn; it only supports counter-clockwise trains, and not very well even for those. The passing siding on the far right is the only possible arrival/departure tracks for a train going clock-wise. I see no way for the yard switcher to get a cut of cars from any a/d tracks to the yard without fouling the main.

    - The passing track on the far right must be on a steep grade to duck under the yard tracks, which means it can only be used by intact trains - no uncoupling allowed. This conflicts with its use as an a/d track for trains going clock-wise.

    - The mine is strictly a push-pull operation because there is no run-around on the mine branch. Any running-around must be done at the passing siding where the engine servicing area branches off, further tying up the main line.

    - servicing the steel mill will effectively remove one yard track from classification/car storage. Again, there are no run-arounds other than the passing siding which cannot have cars standing on it because they will roll away, and the run-around by the engine servicing. This means all putting of cars in proper order in relation to the engine for spotting them at the mine or mill must be done at this one run-around track.

    - have you checked the run-around, passing, and yard tracks for consistency with your desired longest train length?

    my thoughts, your choices
  7. bigsteel

    bigsteel Call me Mr.Tinkertrain

    alright time to answer some stuff
    1.ill probably move the layotu 2 feet a way from any walls.
    2.if there 2 feet away i wont need a hatch
    3.i dont know moch about arrival departure and operations , just the basics any help please!thanks
    4.could you draw a way to make it work with a blast furnace, BOF, rolling mill,and yard tracks to store 10 coal hoppers,10 lime cars,and 10 iron ore cars thx.
    5.i might do the complete opposite and raise them OR shorten my yard tracks for clearance redrawing it and adding a runaround. redrawing to add a yard track for the lost one and another run around ill post it in a minute. longest train will only be 8 2 bay hoppers at approx. 6in each

    P.S way to break a guy down man while hes feelin good pgandw LOL
  8. bigsteel

    bigsteel Call me Mr.Tinkertrain

    i also just wanted too say real quick before planning goes on that,i really dont care about 'realistic operations' as long as its all there and is functional.thx
  9. When I posted my plan awhile back pgandw did the same thing to me too, in the end though, after going back over my layout, it did need revising. Your layout is looking good so far, just need's some "prototype" in it.:thumb:
  10. bigsteel

    bigsteel Call me Mr.Tinkertrain

    ok guys sorry its been so long and thanks for all the kind complements about my layout
  11. pgandw

    pgandw Active Member

  12. pgandw

    pgandw Active Member

    Big Steel

    The more I look at your plan, the more I believe there might be a better way to achieve your goals.

    Having your steel mill complex on the right side causes your layout to be in two almost separate rooms, with the attendant awkward access issues. Would it be possible to move the steel mill complex to the left wall? Or even move it to the top wall? If moving it against a wall, I would also suggest reducing the depth slightly (to 30") by reducing the number of yard tracks and/or passing siding in front of the yard.

    The rearrangement will greatly expand the possibilities for the rest of the layout, including the engine terminal, as well as improving access.

    just my thoughts, your choices
  13. MasonJar

    MasonJar It's not rocket surgery

    Big Steel,

    If you would like this thread moved to the Track Planning forum, please just let me know. You could also start a new thread there, with a link back here for continuity.

    Fred's advice is good - and it does give you a lot to think about. One relatively quick solution that at least addresses the engine servicing/yard point is to flip the steel mill and the servicing area. That way, the operations from mine to mill are run from the pit, and the servicing area is now adjacent to the yard, as per prototype operations. I think this is a variation on Fred's suggestion... ;)

    I agree with Fred that the yard is still not easily operated. And the only way to get into the mill is to use the lead into another building (lower right) as a switchback. I know you said that prototypical operations were not high on your list, but as Fred said (I'm paraphrasing), if you've gone to the trouble of making a believable steel mill, it should operate in a believable way, or at least a less-than-frustrating way. I think that the two switchbacks required to get intot the mill (at less than 2 feet long each) will prove very frustrating. :(

    I have to ask too - why the opening in the benchwork in the lower left? If the bottom and right sides are open to the rest of the room, why are you leaving that corner open too? Is there a door or some other access required? Could you post a drawing of the entire room with all windows. doors, stairs, closets, etc showing? There may be a better overall configuration (without requiring you to renegotiate with the "Lands Commissioner" :D).

    I think that you can "thin down" the shelves/benchwork to provide a better environment for the operator(s) without losing much or any of the features that seem to be important (are they as Fred listed?).

    Hope that helps.

  14. bigsteel

    bigsteel Call me Mr.Tinkertrain

    thanks for the help pgandw i might just reconfigure the whole thing but i still want alot to pack in this limited space.i read a small book on the ten commandments of yards and i got a good idea of everything now.mason jar it would help alot too move this to track planning and ill post a layout of the room too.see yah later.oh and also the mountainous terrain on some parts i really wanted too show off the C&O area and i wantred to have the steel mill and engine servicing those are the main things.
  15. bigsteel

    bigsteel Call me Mr.Tinkertrain

    OK heres the whole room.the area i was 'given' is the 10.5 by 10.5 ft area in the corner.the reason i had an open space in the corner of the layout is for people to walk down on the landing and have wiggle room.but i cant go in the aisle way,so pretty much the spot i have is the spot i get,ugh:cry: .but i know of worse.well any new bench work ideas would be great.i can modify the stuff im working on now to work for 3 feet.but in the open places i could probably keep it 4 feet since its is technically 2 since you can reach both sides.but others i could change.i just want to get the most of this space as possible.and also have continous running with turns so no totallypoint to point layouts.
  16. bigsteel

    bigsteel Call me Mr.Tinkertrain

    ok here it is.
  17. MadHatter

    MadHatter Charging at full tilt.

    New Idea

    Bigsteel, I see everyones' worried about you not being able to reach if there is an accident or mishap or if you need to clean in those hard to reach places.:cry:

    Heres an idea.

    Why not make "access hatches" in two or three of the corners- if they can do it on the larger layouts why not on the smaller ones too? :thumb:
  18. MadHatter

    MadHatter Charging at full tilt.

    Maybe you should make your put a bit wider, after looking at the plan on the previous page I see that you can make it closer to the Steel Mill.
  19. MadHatter

    MadHatter Charging at full tilt.

    Heres what I think:

    1) Move your loco Facilities to the upper left (maybe even on top of the tunnels).
    2) Your Steel Mill Needs some Loops for the locos to run around theoir train- In real life it is considered dangerous to push a train over long distances, thus locos should always be in front.
    3) As was said by a few of the other guys, maybe your yard needs to be reconfigured. The way your buildings are placed makes it look like a train need to manuver into that bottom building to get to the top buildings- maybe put all your buildings on one side or shift the bottom one to another location.
    4) You need a shunting neck to come down past that bottom building as long as your longest yard track. You want the shunter to stay off the mainline.

    Otherwise the plan looks cool.

    Don't stress we will find a way that you can have your cake and eat it!!
  20. MadHatter

    MadHatter Charging at full tilt.

    Sorry that this is off topic, but is there anywhere I can download Xtrack Cad- the links at their site don't work or don't have it anymore.

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