Ideas for G.E.C.

Discussion in 'Track Planning' started by ocalicreek, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

    Here's one to kick it off.


    With this arrangement you get the look of a 4-track main, with basically a double-track dogbone. On this end the flyover accomplishes a reversal with inside tracks becoming outside and vice-versa.

    On the other end I'd go with a complex-looking switch arrangement with additional tracks at a larger station and continue the 4-track look along one side of the loop. If done correctly, the inner track of the loop can act as staging and allow trains approaching from either side to pass around.
  2. green_elite_cab

    green_elite_cab Keep It Moving!

    Thats a pretty cool idea! If the 4 track segment were extended, and the curve used for the staging, it would look like trains were coming and going north and south, but in reality it would be the same ones.

    The only concern i have is grades. a the usual passenger train that most of my passenger locomotives (in particular the small light AEM7s/ALP44) is 6 passenger cars. the models ironically can't really pull much more than that even on level track. if the grades are to tough, the train won't be able to pull itself over the hill. Even heavier locomotives passenger locomotives would be put under stress.

    I understand its a rough sketch, but its something to keep in mind.
  3. RonP

    RonP Member of the WMRC

    Come on GEC you know Galen's on the case. My bet he is in for at least 5 more edits.
  4. green_elite_cab

    green_elite_cab Keep It Moving!

    true. DON'T MIND ME! I'm a nut!sign1

    I'm bad with this sort of thing. I'm always afraid that i have left out some sort of information critical to layout planning, so i'm prone to spouting out such worries.

    Again, don't mind me, lol.

    Thanks for these ideas! I can't wait to see how they evolve.:thumb:
  5. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

    Evolution is the right word. It's survival of the fittest, or what fits best in your space, with the concepts & ideas you need to include, etc. Yeah, at least a few more edits.

    AND, I'm not offended at all if anybody else builds on my work/suggestions/sketches. I only had a limited time this morning to crank it out, scan it in, resize and post. I want to work on my Shifter project tonight, but if I really get into the sketching, well, it's fun in it's own way.

    What actually inspired the creative flurry was spending time with my 3 year old pushing trains around on the floor this morning. Last night I "built him a layout" with his wooden track and this morning we tried it out. Fun stuff, that wooden track. Wild pieces like a turntable with a turnout as the deck. Very cool.

    Already Chris has given me a couple more ideas. I was worried as well about the grades and had not considered at all the catenary, so please keep the suggestions coming. We're still a long way from refining a plan. This is just the early shaping and hammering out phase.
  6. green_elite_cab

    green_elite_cab Keep It Moving!

    lol, that turntable must have came from the department of redundancy department. I remember loving those wooden trains, but my parent never would buy them for me, lol. now they are in trouble, because i have the scale hobby going.

    In any event, its good to know that i did not cause offense. I know that i'm pretty bad sometimes with this sort of thing.

    The only thing I'm imagining and liking now more then ever is Push pull operations off and on the main layout that might be able to incorporate the vertical elements.

    The ideal place on the NEC that i've though of is the area were the North Jersey Coastline merges with the NEC (south or Rahway, NJ), North to Linden, NJ. there is one station between there in Rahway, so its a pretty short section. Whats cool is that NJ transit trains, including diesels like my unique GP40FH-2, would come down the NEC from Hoboken or wherever with trains of passengers heading down to New Jersey's beaches. they would travel this section of the NEC to the NJCL in push pull.

    I'd envision the some a 4 track main with staging or a view block of some kind so that the 4 tracks can go around and allow for continuous operations. At one end would have the "north" (East in NJT naming) staging, and you'd have your NJCL trains zip down to the "South"(west) end, where there would be the junction just like in real life. the trains there go under a road bridge that can act as the other hidden staging area, and the NJCL trains would basically push pull back and forth. Since they have cab cars, there is no need to turn the train around, and all you need is a holding track long enough to fit the train. the longest train i can pull is an 8 car NJ transit train, but usually I'll stick to 5-6 cars. There should be enough space for a light grade.

    at the same time, it eats space, so this may not be the best idea. It definitely seems to flow with your ideas.

    I made an MS paint diagram of the junction. the NJCL is in red, the NEC is in blue. This could be simplified to just the outer tracks diverging off, and i think it would still retain the feel. It could definintiely be selectively compressed.

  7. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

    Chris, have you seen the NEC layout on Youtube? It's a 16'x16' layout taken to shows for display. Type Northeast Corridor Layout into the search bar and you should find it easily. Lemme know what you think.
  8. green_elite_cab

    green_elite_cab Keep It Moving!

    I've seen it in person. The guy who owned it seemed to freak out when i asked about tips for making the catenary. he was like "Oh, its a couple thousand dollars", and then when i said i can make it cheaper by scratchbuilding it he went on to say "its to tough to build". Meanwhile, i've had a couple home made bridges and catenary wire that just need to be soldered together (I don't have the insulator detail i want yet, so i still need to get around to that on my current layout.)

    Way to encourage other modelers, :rolleyes:sign1

    Anyway, While his catenary is amazing, his track plan would not satisfy me. I used to have a copy of it, and his site has been down for a few years now. one corner of the triangle has a bunch of hills and things, and some of the tracks kinda go off on their own, without sticking together.

    On the prototype, the 4 tracks are uniformly spaced and generally don't go up or down individually. The only exception is the tracks will space out for some stations, and even a couple extra tracks might be added here or there.

    In short, the trackwork itself on the prototype NEC is very VERY boring. its more the catenary and the environment around it that is the interesting part. Interesting trackwork only shows up approaching the stations or junctions.

    The NEC layout is otherwise pretty close to what i'm looking for, if maybe just slightly less urban.
  9. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

    Yeah, all the photos & video I've ever seen show those straight & parallel tracks under all that wire. You're right that it's the scenery and surroundings that make it interesting. That, and 150 mph trains from the future!

    A little research today, not much sketching. If it doesn't happen before Monday it won't until next Friday as I'll be up in BC at a conference.
  10. green_elite_cab

    green_elite_cab Keep It Moving!

    Yeah, trains like the Acela definitely make things interesting. I suppose thats the goal here. Create the stage that evokes the memory of the actual thing.

    I'm just trying to think about a way i can add direction to the layout. I'm interested in seeing if there is a way i can have push pull NJ transit trains going on and off the main layout. that would be pretty neat.
  11. green_elite_cab

    green_elite_cab Keep It Moving!

    i recently got a dvd on the NEC in the region I was considering. Its going to be tough to model some of this! I'm trying to work out a way to realistically divide scenes. I don't think that junction with the NJCL will work to well, considering you can see it from rahway station, and there is no way to fit the junction and the station on the same stretch, even if you compress it. I might build it as a module, but for now if i want an NEC layout, i think i'm going to have to drop it.
  12. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

    With the space you're working with it may be hard to get in a sufficient racetrack so trains can get up to speed and cruise a while.

    So many planners work hard (myself included) to avoid that racetrack look, as if you should be running slot cars instead of trains. But that's exactly the scenario you're trying to create. The track & catenary really is more of a functional part of the layout more than a visually interesting unit. For many it's the curves and bridges & so forth and the variety of such that makes the layout. For your scenario it's more about a platform for interesting trains and the interesting scenery they pass through.

    Modular railroading does come to mind...Is there a NEC modular group out there? I know the NMRA has all kinds of standards for various scales and FreeMo has developed out of a desire to operate more realistically and have more scenic freedom. But how cool would it be if you could be part of an NEC modular setup that provided the return loops and set the standards for a large 4-track main system?
  13. green_elite_cab

    green_elite_cab Keep It Moving!

    Figure i'd ressurect this. This is the plan i've been working on.

  14. Triplex

    Triplex Active Member

    Interesting... what's the purpose of everything? Even without knowing more, one of those crossovers on the right looks useless.
  15. green_elite_cab

    green_elite_cab Keep It Moving!

    Oh, yeah, i didn't really explain anything. thats what happens when you're not awake, lol.

    anyways, The upper portion is supposed to be an automobile transfer facility. I've got it so that i has a yard and a reasonable amount of space for 4-5 autoracks.

    There is a crossover in there that i will get rid of. I think i had originaly put it there before i made some other changes, and forgot to get rid of it.

    alot of the stuff towards the lower left is just there to keep the oval shape. Hopefully this picture will explain the basic idea.

    the red and blue tracks will go down to staging. everything else is going to be the stage in which trains pass through. I'm working on sketching the staging tracks, as well as possible industrial tracks for the "inside" of the layout, such as for the oil refinery and such.

    I will probably put Walthers George Roberts Printing in there somewhere (I already have this building so i better use it!)

    and i'm also thinking about Walthers Magic Pan bakery, as well as maybe a warehouse of some kind on one of the other ends.

  16. Russ Bellinis

    Russ Bellinis Active Member

    Josh, there is no reason to use 4 tracks for your helix. Putting a couple of switches in to tie the 2 red tacks into one and the 2 blue tracks into one will narrow your helix considerably. Then as you bring a train up from staging, you can use the switch to direct the train to whichever track you want to use.
  17. green_elite_cab

    green_elite_cab Keep It Moving!

    lol, i'm chris! thats alright though, its the interwebs. everyone is anynomous!

    While this is true, i would like the double track to be continuous run. I might make them smaller, but i just don't like having to remeber to throw switches all the time, especially if its going to be somewhere in staging where it isn't immeadiately obvious.

    I do have the next incarnation of my track plan sketched, which includes the industrial sidings, although i'm still having a hard time visiualizing the verticle portions of the staging area, but i think i worked it out so that the blue track instead passes outside of the red track and goes around the perimeter of the layout to go down, while the red track goes into a tighter 32 and 30 inch radius helix.

    I'll post it tommorow, because there are some issues i'm concerned with.

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