I Have Been Told This Is Impossible ??

Discussion in 'HO Scale Model Trains' started by JustTraining6071, Jun 6, 2009.

  1. JustTraining6071

    JustTraining6071 Just Training NZ 6071


    Hi All
    This is an old DC layout that I have been converting into a DCC layout with more track... Fellow modelers have siad that this is Impossible and that's why I am putting this on hear to see if there is anyone out there that may no of away of this to be done..
    I have only been in this training hobby for about the last two years and I do not take the easyway as you can see.. As to what I am trying to do..
    This is running with a NCE DCC Controller

    1. Trying to have the trains not to stop in the reversing loops...
    2. Help with where do I need to have the circuit breakers in the track if this can be done..

    Where it is all white on this drawing has all been upliftted for now and I would like to keep going with this plan...

    This is it running with the NCE controller

    Is this Impossible ?

    Attached Files:

  2. JustTraining6071

    JustTraining6071 Just Training NZ 6071

    Hi there CNJ999
    It is in HO and is on a table of 8 foot by 4 foot
    The plan is to have four to five trains going at once..
    I can already run three on the outside circuit if you have the time you can see this with two running on the youtube clip

    Thanks for the feed back sir
  3. CNJ999

    CNJ999 Member

    If indeed a 4x8 HO layout then, yes, the trackplan as drawn to scale is largely untenable. Whether DC or DCC, as drawn I'm afraid that the radii of the return loop curves are all well below 18". In addition, there are no commonly available turnouts that will fit most of the proposed locations and the same is true for the double crossover.

    In the first case, locomotives larger than 0-6-0's and standard freight cars, unless excessively weighted (and even then maybe not), simply won't make it around the 12"-15" radius return loops consistantly without derailment. The latter two problems concern physical dimensions of the track items that simply can't be changed to fit the situation. To properly do what you have drawn would reasonably require a layout of something like 6'x12'.

  4. ytter_man

    ytter_man Member

    The reverse loops should be possible, cant really see a problem there if you're willing to invest some $$$ in electronics. There's two auto-reverse units at my local club and they're awesome.

    CNJ999 he's already built the layout lol! Look at his youtube link^^^^^
  5. JustTraining6071

    JustTraining6071 Just Training NZ 6071

    Hi Ytter man... Thanks for the vote of confidence .. do you think you can get the numbers and brand name of your club reversing units....And do you know anyone that may know where I have to put the circuit breakers in the track ??
    Thanks again

    I only have one large locomotive and this is to stay on the outside circuit with only passing throw the middle in a straight run ....

    Have you watched the youtube clip??

    The radius are tight but they work for what it is needed for ...I have a 2 1/2 year old boy that is just a little train mad ...So this is all about trains going round and round.....Makeing the return loop auto is the BIG ????
    At this stage I am not getting derailments
  6. chooch.42

    chooch.42 Member

    JT, HI ! Just my thinking, the "impossible" judgement may have come from the drawing shown (not a SCALE representation) of what you've built. While your layout doesn't follow a "realistic" track arrangement - kind of a "spaghetti-bowl" - if that's what the CEO wants, OK ! While some of the switch/loop complication may be difficult to handle (I don't do good electrical stuff), almost anything is possible, and somebody here has the knowledge, if you can cvonvey what is actually going on, and what you want to do. Maybe (if you don't have the drawing skills or software), how about overhead still(s) of the layout to show the track configurations. It looks like fun to run ! Bob C.
  7. JustTraining6071

    JustTraining6071 Just Training NZ 6071

    Thanks JT ...yes I am still looking for the one that can answer if it can be done as the middle is all ripped up now ..so I would really like to start laying it ...
    And yes this is most deaftenitly not a scale model but it dose have hells ketchen :)
    .......And yrs I can say it is very cool when there is three trains going ..so I am really looking forward to getting this part done
  8. ytter_man

    ytter_man Member

    I think the auto-reversers are made by a company called Circuitron.
  9. CNJ999

    CNJ999 Member

    John, the reason you are not finding the advice you are looking for and the comment was made elsewhere that your idea is impossible, is because of the complexity of your trackage as shown. You don't have simple return loops, which could be easily controlled with something like an auto-reversing module. Instead, you have compound return loops that also tie into other trackage in too many places.

    I expect that some expert in DCC somewhere might indeed be able to wire your layout correctly to accomplish what you want done, but I'll be very surprised if over-the-Internet advice how to do it yourself can be offered.

    Incidentally, if it's not in place already, see what happens when you get to that double crossover you've drawn in at the bottom right of your trackplan!

  10. Gitasgod

    Gitasgod New Member

    "Hi Ytter man... Thanks for the vote of confidence .. "

    All the votes of confidence in the world will not change the facts as pointed out by CNJ999

    *(In the first case, locomotives larger than 0-6-0's and standard freight cars, unless excessively weighted (and even then maybe not), simply won't make it around the 12"-15" radius return loops consistantly without derailment. )*

    as regards the physical limitations regarding the rolling stock and the radii.

  11. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid New Member

    Yes it is possible.

    1.Take the time to draw the layout on a LARGE scale.
    2.Start at one point on the outside loop and draw the two rails (A or right, B or Left) in different colors, say red and green OR just keep labeling one side R and the other L.
    3. Work your way inward from the outside beginning at the top, concentrating on the three main loops.

    I did this on four sheets of 8 1/2 x 11 paper taped together with your diagram.
    There are a maximum of eight points where both rails will have to be gapped:
    1, 2, 3, 4 - at each end of the proposed blue lines. (note: the length of the blue segments will need to be longer than the electrical pickups of your longest loco.
    5 - at the right hand turnout just to the east of the double crossover (I called this inner loop track 2 and the right throw goes to track 3)
    6 - if you follow the right throw of that switch you will come to a left hand switch. There will have to be double gaps on the left leg of that switch (it is a return loop for track 2)
    7 - continue on the track we have been following east bound from 5 and the next switch that comes from the yard will have to have its west end tracks double-gapped
    8 - there is a switch at the west end, at about 1 o'clock from the double cross-over. If you are coming clockwise around the outer orange loop, the rails that continue to the right will need to be double gapped.

    I think that you will be able to get by using only 4 auto-reversers, but might need 5.

    If you want to discuss further, send me a PM and I can give directions as to where the reversers would have to go.
  12. ZeldaTheSwordsman

    ZeldaTheSwordsman Thomas Modeler

    As for locos and rolling stock, I'd advise looking at Bachmann's Thomas range. The tank engines and the small rolling stock items will easily tackle small curves.
  13. 60103

    60103 Pooh Bah

    Just a quick note on option D. You need to make a reversing section of the whole loop. Start at the switch where the left end of the blue line meets the orange line -- 4 gaps just past the frog, 1 in each rail. At the switch at the other end of the blue line, in the middle of the loop, put gaps in the orange side of the switch -- between the switch and the crossing. This should give you the longest possible reverse section, and if you have a train longer than this it won't go around anyway!
    Not sure about all the single and double crossovers. You might be able to combine a bunch of them.
  14. hmas

    hmas Member

    You could go to 3 rail:mrgreen:
  15. JustTraining6071

    JustTraining6071 Just Training NZ 6071

    Hi KWK
    Thanks for your responce to this big task I have ahead
    I will have to study your reply abit longer as I am still just a little lost..
    Are you on skype ??
    Regards John
  16. JustTraining6071

    JustTraining6071 Just Training NZ 6071

    No thank you
    All the best
  17. diesel

    diesel Member

    You're NOT getting derailments??? You're the man!!! I gave up on the 4x8 layout as soon as I had space to expand... But you have some very tight radius' there... I was gonna say Atlas makes 15" radius snap track, but you seem to have it figured out... anyway maybe in the furture you'll try the shelf style layout. If you make it no more than 2 or 3' deep, you can reach everything and get more in... unless you just don't have the space.
  18. green_elite_cab

    green_elite_cab Keep It Moving!

    I have to be honest, i'm not convinced thats a 4x8. DO you have an overal picture from above?

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