Groizer X - Space Pirate

Discussion in 'Dream Kits & Wish Lists' started by Rogerio Silva, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. Ron Caudillo

    Ron Caudillo Creative Advisory Consultant Moderator

    You are finding out pretty quickly that a papermodel may not just be the surface pattern, but an internal support structure may be needed. This is the engineering challenge that I love about design work. You look to be doing very well and the masters who are coaching you along are very admired by me.

    Keep at it and I'm sure you will be pleased with your efforts and hard work (and we will be too!)

    Best Regards,
  2. Rogerio Silva

    Rogerio Silva Active Member

    Pride and honnor


    I'm always honnored that you find the time to visit my threads, Master Ron!:mrgreen: About Groizer X, yes, it's been quite a challenge, but I guess seeing the model finally assembled will be the greatest reward to these efforts.
    You're right when you say about the help I'm receiving, and what pleases me most is that the masters that are coaching me talk to me as an equal. Of course, my admiration for them is clearly declared, and I do it once again now.
    It's my first model, and once I'm satisfied with it, I'll start to alpha build it, along with your beautiful TOS Enterprise, as I have stated in older posts.
    Thank you once again for your visit and kind words,

  3. Rogerio Silva

    Rogerio Silva Active Member

    The end is near...


    I was having terrible problems with my unfolding script for Blender, after doing some Booleans in the rear part, so that it would have the necessary openings for the wings. I struggled with it for about two days, and only now I've found a solution...
    If you intend to use Blender for paper modeling, let me share the problem (detailing it:cry:) and the solution (yeah, babe!:thumb::cool:). Problem: you use Booleans in Blender for intersections, unions and differences, and it works pretty fine, AFTER YOU LEARN ABOUT THE NORMALS. Don't know normals? They're those vectors that are normal (hence their names) to the surface of the face (phonetic repetition...:rolleyes:). So if the faces' normals of the two different objects don't have the same orientation (outwards or inwards), you're gonna have a heck of a problem trying to use Booleans.
    All right, so I used Booleans and it all worked beautifully. But Booleans in Blender are messy, they create a lot of newer faces where there was only one (THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! :p). You can solve it by using the Dissolve command, more specifically the Limited Dissolve.
    And then my problem started: the unfolding script for Blender wouldn't work. How do you solve that? You COULD use Re-mesh modifier and then Limited Dissolve, but for me it didn't work. I had to do a lot of topological cleansing (remove tens of spare vertices:eek:), and it sincerely ended up as a boring, confusing, never-ending job... I had to start over three times!
    So I decided to use Re-mesh and Decimate, but no results were good enough.:curse: Finally, after a glimpse of a good future:twisted:, I chose to use ONLY Decimate, Plane, with just a bit to reduce the number of faces (by two or three, not much), and VOILÀ!:mrgreen::mrgreen: It worked like magic! So there you have it: problem AND solution.

    Let's keep sharing the knowledge, people! All the best!
  4. Rogerio Silva

    Rogerio Silva Active Member

    Almost there...


    I've had a few advices on trying to simplify the model, and one of them shows the difference between a skilled modeler and the first-time guy, like me: if you can hide it, simplify it!:mrgreen::cool: That's something I should have done a long time ago, and I know it would have made my life a lot easier...:cry:
    So, I took the advice and purged off a few faces that I thought would be essential to support the rear structure, although now I see that they won't make such a difference.
    I'm almost ready for an alpha build, so I'll just post some pictures of where the job is at. If you take a good look, you'll see that the chest and the head are different (IMHO, for better).

    Attached Files:

  5. Rogerio Silva

    Rogerio Silva Active Member

    Unfolding my enthusiam...

    Hello, everybody!

    After a few tests, I think I've got it! I now know how the Blender unfolding script works... Yeah, I know, all I had to do was read the Blender wiki, and I did, but if you're new to modeling, things aren't so easy...
    So, I present to you my first attempt of manually unfolding one of the wings. Of course it could use a little space redistribution, but the script works differently from Pepakura, and you have to unfold one object at a time. I'll see if I can make a group of objects unfold.
    And I'm still working out the illumination, to get an even color all over the object.
    So here's the pic:

    Attached Files:

  6. ShadowHawk141

    ShadowHawk141 Member

    Rogerio, here you are !!!

    I realy must browse thrue the different sections of the forum more.

    I was allready wondering what you were up to since I didn't see any new build-thread popping up.

    Wow man, just wow, you're actualy pulling this off. 3D modeling I mean.
    Not that I didn't believe you could do it, it's just that I can't believe me doing it.
    If this is your first time making a 3D model then I'm deeply impressed.
    I've been fidgeting around with blender and pepakura and it went right over my head. The "thing" I produced surely looked alien but not as we know it :eek:

    Kuddos to you my friend.

    Cheers and good luck with your project, I'll be following this surely from now on !!

  7. Rogerio Silva

    Rogerio Silva Active Member

    Not as hard as it looks...

    Hey, Elko, AKA ShadowHawk!

    Well, you know, I've got tired of looking for the model I wanted...:rolleyes: So I started thinking... If everyone else does, then why can't I? All right, I'm no genius, but it can't be so hard...
    I used to be a Navy Officer, and in the Brazilian Navy, you have to be creative, you have to make things happen, in the best, fastest way possible. I reallly loved the Navy, but sometimes it was hard...:cry:
    But enough memories! I decided to learn Blender, and did make it happen. It was hard, yes, but all the info is at hand, so all I had to do was to listen and to test. I little bit of trial and error, yes, but if you have a logical mind, you'll see that there's a lot of coherence in modeling.
    Unfortunatelym the Blender paper model export didn't work as good as I espected, but I've been experiencing with the Flattery plugin for Google Sketchup, with some very good results. Still having trouble exporting it, though, but I'm gonna get there.
    I think I'll have a model ready way before than I though, which makes me feel even better!
    But I have to tell you (all) one thing, and one thing only:

  8. ShadowHawk141

    ShadowHawk141 Member

    I don't know about that, maybe I just haven't got the patience for this particular craft.
    I'll just stick to cutting and glueing, I do have the patience for that and I love doing it :)

    Nonetheless I'm very impressed by what you do :thumb:

  9. Rogerio Silva

    Rogerio Silva Active Member

    You can do it!


    Of course you can do it, it's actually a little faster than cutting and glueing, once you get the hang of it. Let me remind you that I only started this because I couldn't find the model anywhere...:cry:
    I'm no UHU02, but I think it's good enough for a first model, don't you think? And the best part of it was everybody helping me out!:mrgreen::thumb: That's what I like about Zealot, everybody here wants you to succeed in whatever endeavor you start.
    Go for it, you will not regret it! All the best,

  10. Rogerio Silva

    Rogerio Silva Active Member

    Now it's for real!


    After a few "go's" and "come back's", the real unfolding has begun. Although I started using the Flattery script for Google Sketchup 8, I did model the Pirate (Groizer X) in Blender 2.6...:cry: Unfortunately, I couldn' get it to work right, because there was always one or two vertices superimposing each other, which led to edges and faces superimposition...:curse: Lil' old stupid me has still got a lot to learn...:oops:
    So I went back to The Paper Model export script in Blender, and with some trials and errors (better make it "A LOT"), I finally grasped the "mechanics" of the script and started unfolding "properly".:rolleyes: I have already unfolded both front wings and the chest, but I'll show just the wings for now.
    Of course, once all's been unfolded, we'll have the alpha build, and see what needs to be corrected. I hopefully would like to think that it's all good, since I did a lot of remodeling, but I don't believe it'll be that easy.
    So, here's the pic of the wings. I even divided it in two "columns", RIGHT and LEFT, and started numbering the parts. Am I confident or what?:p

    Attached Files:

  11. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator

    Impressive! :thumb::thumb::thumb:
  12. Rogerio Silva

    Rogerio Silva Active Member

    Thanks again!

    Thanks, Revell-Fan!
    And thank you very much for all your help during this process. I'm still trying to see what I'm doing worng in Flattery...:rolleyes: And I even use it to see how's the best way to unfold something in the Paper Model Export script.
    And let me make public all the acknowledgments for you, imcold, ThunderChild and all the other visitors in this thread that helped me out, and/or dropped a few lines of encouragement.
    Thanks, everybody!:thumb:
  13. Rogerio Silva

    Rogerio Silva Active Member

    I'm working, I'm working...

    Now for an update. I have unfolded the front wings (but you already knew that...:p), chest, head, lower chest (white and red part, needs to be re-checked), and antennas (which I had to redesign/simplify a lot...:twisted: Thanks, ThunderChild!:thumb:). Oh, and all the little somethings (greebles?) that go on the front wings, except for the missile launchers.
    I'm having problems to unfold the rocket legs, and probably will redesign them (as I did with the head and the lower chest...:cry:). I think I'll get back to them later... A few steps back, you know...
    Maybe we'll have an alpha build start-off in a week or two!:rolleyes:
    See ya all!
  14. Rogerio Silva

    Rogerio Silva Active Member

    Inside out.

    I did redesign the rocket legs twice or three times (lost track of it). Anyway, now I think I've got it!:thumb: In the mean time, all the rear wings had to be redesigned, following a principle that was taught to me by a friend: if you can hide it, simplify it!:twisted:sign1
    Anyway, I was struggling with the rear part, the one where the rocket legs go in the forward, and out in the aft. It took lil' old stupid ME:cry: almost a month:eek: to figure out that I should divide them into two separate parts (objects), regardless they are a single section of the ship. After I've done that, I could unfold the pieces into some understandable parts, not some small, angled, difficult-to-put-together pieces...:rolleyes:
    So, now I'm in the process of creating the rear "greebles", which I will do the same as described above, and I've found a little thing about the Paper Model Export for Blender: it separates all the edges in the SVG file. It means that every single edge has its own start and end vertices, so... THEY'RE ALL DUPLICATED! That's why I couldn't fill the pieces with the colors I've chosen...:curse: After eliminating the doubled vertices and joining them with their next ones, it all worked out fine:twisted:.
    This is the TO-DO list for the first alpha build:
    1 - check unfolding of the "helmet" parts;
    2 - re-create the "horns" (NOT the antennas);
    3 - check unfolding of the rear wings (upper and lower);
    4 - check unfolding of the rudders;
    5 - check unfolding for the missile launchers (probably redesing the whole thing);
    6 - re-check unfolding for the front wing "greebles";
    7 - create unfolded version of the internal support structure;
    8 - print it; and
    9 - alpha build it.

    I know I said it would take only a week or two, but I'm starting a course today, after hours, so expect some delay in work...but I don't think I'll exceed the previous schedule (the end of the year!sign1)
    Thanks for visiting,

  15. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator

    Your working pace is astounding! It took me many months to get familiar with 3d modeling programs, unfolding and so on (and I am still learning) and you are pulling this model off in just a few weeks. WOW! :cool:
  16. Rogerio Silva

    Rogerio Silva Active Member



    Man, your words mean a whole world to me!:mrgreen::thumb: But you have to agree with me that the model isn't so hard... After all, it's no UHU02 model, my friend...
    About modeling, well, you know... It's hard, but when you have an open mind, and are used to find out creative solutions for many problems (Navy does it to you, and I'm thankful for that!:twisted:), things are easier. A background in Geodesy (I've got a M. Sc. degree in it) helps a lot, because of the many simillarities with terrain modeling and spatial data....:cool:
    Blender is a good tool, too, very powerful, but data cleansing and Booleans are a total drag, although necessary. But I think that it will make my life much easier in the alpha build phase:twisted:.
    If I weren't so dumb, I would have it finished by now...wall1 But the good thing is that I'm learning a lot, and with your help, as well as ThuderChild's and imcold's, not to mention my "Mentor" Rhaven Blaack, everything is going well, even with the setbacks I've had.
    I pratically redesigned the whole thing, which now I think is a normal thing to do, going back and forth in modeling. You always think you can do better, but you have to know where you'll draw the line between feasible and wild dream!sign1
    So thanks again for your support, I greatly appreciate it!
  17. Rogerio Silva

    Rogerio Silva Active Member

    Just checking...

    Today's update:
    1 - "helmet" parts (inner and outer) checked and unfolded;:mrgreen::thumb::cool:
    2 - "horns" recreated and unfolded (not quite pleased with it, but they will fit the head);:mrgreen::rolleyes:
    3 - TO DO;:curse:
    4 - rudders checked and unfolded;:mrgreen::thumb::cool:
    5 - TO DO;:curse:
    6 - TO DO;:curse:
    7 - chest and front wing structure checked and unfolded:mrgreen::thumb::cool:, rear wings TO DOwall1;
    8 - TO DO:oops:; and
    9 - TO DO:oops:.
    Delays expected, since course in progress...:cry:
  18. Rogerio Silva

    Rogerio Silva Active Member

    You know what? I thank you all for visiting my thread, and giving me support and advice, but... I confess: I wish Zathros were here to see this. Thanks to him and Rhaven Blaack, and to all we have here in Zealot (which is made by US), I've got the guts to go on with all this.
  19. Rogerio Silva

    Rogerio Silva Active Member

    Keepin' busy

    There are still some things in my to do list for the Groizer X, but this is what I've been doing. I've been preparing the pages for printing. CHeck it out and tell me what you think. BTW, the grey shade of some pieces has been cleared to a lighter one.

    Attached Files:

  20. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator

    Looks good! Remember to leave a rim around the page to ensure that all parts are printed correctly. The layout should fit on Letter size paper, too. I didn't consider that when I made my first templates but now I arrange everything on letter size (with rim) and then change the canvas to A4 to cover both formats. You also may prepare two plans, one in letter size and one in A4.

Share This Page