Gooney Bird Transport Design Authority

Discussion in 'Dream Kits & Wish Lists' started by Huey, Oct 9, 2004.

  1. Huey

    Huey Member

    guys, anybody want to chip in for a 1/33 scale C-47? maybe we can help DeWayne defray the cost. if we all contribute even $5 a piece, we'd probably get something going here.
  2. jrts

    jrts Active Member

    Hi Huey

    Why not go the whole hog and go for a 1/24 or 1/16 8)
    Iam in bigger the better.
    DeWayne, good or bad idea :?:
    To do this we need your input before it goes any further mate???

    I hope you think its a good idea :roll:


  3. DeWayne

    DeWayne Member

    Kit; et al,
    This is not what my post was about. It's an off hand comment about the cost and losses in deveolping models for the general public.

    Just to break even a small scale model needs to sell 30 to 50 units. This covers cost of paying for the commission (what the artist gets), website, research and materials and more. From my experience, limited as it is, I estimate my recovery time is going to run about 3 to 6 months for each model before investment is realized. Some sooner than others based on popularity.

    This is something everyone in this business has to face and get through in order to provide a greater selection.

    Don't go collecting to get a model commissioned unless you want to have it produced for yourself. There is every chance in the world everyone that says "Me too!" when the question is asked will suddenly grow quiet when it's time to ante up. It's just human nature to want more and looking ahead is something we don't usually do. That's what impulse buying is all about :)

    Send requests to your favorite vendor(s) and designers. We listen. The greater the requests for a given subject the better chance it will be done. If it will sell we will do it. How else can we pay for the toys we like? We listen and we change priorities as input comes in because flexibility is the key in papermodeling.

    Support your vendors / distributors - buy from the people you trust and where you can get a good product for a reasonable cost. Hard copy or digital it makes no difference.
  4. DeWayne

    DeWayne Member

    Wow, you guys type fast. I started that last post in replying to Kit's post and when I was done... well.

    I like the idea of a 1:16 scale. If there is interest in one I'd like some suggestions. Come up with a consensus and let me know what you all would want. Give me the data and I'll talk to the designers and see if we can get a good price. Maybe if one does well we can go for more.

    Email me off forum and let me know.
  5. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Michael, DeWayne,

    A detailed 1:33 scale DC-3/C-47 is needed. I share DeWayne's feelings as regards developing larger models..., it can take a lot of time and documentation resources are highly unreliable unless you have a copy of the original blueprints you're in a continous cycle of "wondered about that" updates.

    A thought occured to me that certain items could be "farmed out" to individual designers who have expertise in a particular area. Using dxf as the common file transfer would allow the collaborators to exchange files as required...,

    Before you reply "ain't no way no how" give it a little time to sink in. It may take a long time but I think with this group it could actually be accomplished. Ownership details will have to be worked out but it's worth at least thinking about.

    Best regards, Gil

    P.S. The Kawanishi H8K also needs attention.
  6. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

    DC3 - C47 should be a classic


    Can I just second the opinion of Huey and Gil? A good model of the DC3-C47 should be a very good bet and a most worthy project. A few arguments:

    • It is THE archetypical airliner - plus the most widely used military transport.

    • The aircraft continues to fly today in a number of liveries, kept alive by enthusiasts who often augment the economy by selling memorabilia. A good card model, if produced in a number of liveries (check some active DC3 organizations), would have a good market.

    • There are a large number of ex-DC3/C47 pilots around, not to mention military personnel who have flown, or been flown in, the aircraft. A good number of them might be tempted to buy a readily available card model.

    • I have some experience of the demand for a model of the aircraft, since I designed an X-plane flight simulator (not a big flight simulator, I grant you that) version of it which rapidly became the most downloaded veteran aircraft for a number of years for that sim. During that period I got in contact with a number of, mostly old, people who were very grateful for the opportunity to get the feel of the aircraft again.

    • Sweden has one such veteran DC3 flying, run by the "Flying Veterans", and I think they would jump on the opportunity to sell a card model painted in the old SAS livery for their "Daisy" DC3 (an old converted C47). Same thing goes for Finnish and Danish flying veteran DC3 associations I would think. Holland, of course, has one, and there are a couple in Great Britain. Plus of course numerous DC3s in the US. Many people flown by these associations and companies might jump at a card model sold at the place they're flying from.

    • See also for a comprehensive site of DC3/C47-related material.

    As for scale, I would imagine a detailed 1/33 would be the way to go. Previous attempts (out of print) are the Fly Model and the Geli versions. I have both of them if you need reference to these attempts.

    That said, I would not build it myself in less than 1/25 and would be sorely tempted to at least consider a 1/16 giant version. It would be huge, but very impressive. Requires a very good model to start with, richly detailed. However, with the number of efforts now starting up (aluminium covers, detailed engines, etc.) as reflected on this site, it might well be possible.

    I also think that the DC3 would be the ideal model to gather willing hands for a collective effort, since it is both civilian and military (one gets just a little bit frustrated by the intense concentration on military aircraft at times).

    For what it's worth, and warmly hoping to see some of this realized

  7. Huey

    Huey Member

    If anybody is interested in making this project take off the ground, I'd suggest to PM DeWayne so at least he would know how many (or few) are interested in this project.
  8. Ashrunner

    Ashrunner Member

    One word -- AC-47! (or is that three?)
  9. Huey

    Huey Member

    Most important thing is get this project off the ground and once we have the model, it will be easy for the designer to make different version, whether it be a C-47 Skytrain with D-Day Invasion mark, an AC-47 "Spooky - Puff the Magic Dragon" gunship, or a civilian DC-3. The variation is endless, but we need the bird to be built at 1:16 scale. It will still come short in terms of size as compared to GPM B-52D or Hobby Model B-1 Lancer.
  10. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Hi All,

    One of our members paid around $36.00 U.S. For a 1:33 C-47 on ebay several days ago. Although a single sample it does place a value on the subject as an item.

    Leif', Huey, and Ashrunner's inputs all point toward the establishment of a Douglas DC Transport Genre. The beginning entry point should be the DC-3 / C-47 series of aircraft, Derivative types can easily follow.

    Design is not too different from the B-17 with many similarities which cry to be "borrowed" in the design. Offering the end design in open PDF files allow ease of recoloring. Detail scale issues such as operating gear, doors, flaps, ailerons and control surfaces need to be included as additional items for those interested in "super" detailing.

    Some Dimensions:

    Span: 95 ft 0 in (28.96 m)
    Length: 64 ft 4.5 in (19.57 m)
    Height: 16 ft 11 in (5.16 m)

    Dimensions at Scale:


    Span: 35.54 in 90.27 cm
    Length: 23.41 in 59.46 cm
    Height: 6.15 in 15.62 cm


    Span: 47.27 in 120.065 cm
    Length: 31.135 in 79.08 cm
    Height: 8.18 in 20.77 cm

    1:16 (Leif's reason for finding a new place to live)

    Span: 74.03 in 188.036 cm
    Length: 48.765 in 123.86 cm
    Height: 12.81 in 32.537 cm

    I suggest that those interested in the design effort form the "Gooney Bird Transport Design Authority". This will be the official owner of the effort and will have total control of this effort and all resulting entities produced thereof.

    Best regards, Gil

    P.S. Engine cowls can be completed in an afternoon of work now..., Pratt & Whitney R-1830-93 are also easlily done.
  11. bfam4t6

    bfam4t6 Member

    Well I don't think I can provide much help as far as designing or researching, but i can definitely say that if a 1/16 scale DC-3 or C-47 were offered for sale I would purchase it. I might not be the very first one to purchase it, but you have my word that the moment I had the money available I would order one. As a matter of fact this weekend I spent $36 for Micheals B-26 Fly Model kit on ebay. I'm guessing that even if sales did not sky rocket, which I think they would, you would still be able to make a reasonable amount of money flow just by simply being able to charge more for a larger plane. I don't know whether a larger kit costs more to design and get of the ground, but I'm thinking it could not be much more than that of the price for a smaller scale plane simply blown up a bit. Good look DeWayne and the rest of you.

    P.S. Gil I can't wait to see how your engine and cowlings turn out for the B-17
  12. rickstef

    rickstef Guest

    I have split this from DeWayne's announcement.
    Thought it would be better here.

    I would love to have a big Gooney, I have the Alan Rose kit, the front end of the DC-3, the wing span of that thing is 6foot 3 inches, love that kit.

    I am still hoping to get a model of the DC-2 "Uiver" from the dutch air museum, we will see if and when my parents go to the Netherlands.

  13. rickstef

    rickstef Guest


    here is an idea, while we all want the big scale birds, how about the smaller scales, i would like to see dc-3s in the smaller scales too, 48,50 and 72 and 100, and even 144, mainly due to the fact that some of us are limited on space.

    let me know what you think

  14. Ashrunner

    Ashrunner Member

    I like smaller scales myself. I have a tendency to rescale to about 1:100 everything I try to build. (Note the key word "try" 8v) Anyway, if a Gooney is released at 1:16 scale, it would be nice to have, but somewhat difficult to rescale to 1:100 for non-museum showing display 8v) A carefully designed model could be possibly be released which would allow for any scale of it being least I think one could cover all. Back of my mind says it possible, but my limited designing capability says it would be a bit difficult.
  15. Gil

    Gil Active Member


    Using a universal file format like dxf allows line drawings to be easily transferred and scaled to any size desirable.

    This is one reason the coloring should "also" be done in a vector format as it preserves scale. The limitation being the resolution of the printer to resovle the smallest detail.

    The idea is to create a virtually scalable DC-3 / C-47 which is then used as a template for various livery schemes. Thus the idea of a "Virtual Paint Shop".

    Best regards, Gil
  16. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Hey Guys,

    For what its worth....from a newbie stand point. It would be nice to have it in 1/50 to go the other models I have gotten started on.
    Anyway that's my two cents worth...........and yes I would be one of the first to get count me in too!

    Seems like Gil has the right idea.... make it so you can sell different scales to suit the most amount of people.
  17. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

    Rick, you mentioned: "I have the Alan Rose kit, the front end of the DC-3, the wing span of that thing is 6foot 3 inches, love that kit. " Any idea where one could get hold of such kit? And what does it mean, is it a model of the cockpit section?

    Have thought about such a model myself, and would love to have a kit. Also, it would of course provide valuable assistance in the project discussed here.

    Best, Leif

    PS. (Edited in): OK, I got it, a book with a card model of the front section of the DC3 in what seems to be 1/16, cf. Gil's figures. 1985 vintage and out of print. link here. "Three buyers waiting" and obviously no seller. Figures. Added myself to the queue.
  18. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Does give one an idea though.....,

    Designing one-half an airplane is somewhat easier than designing a whole one. Does anyone one know where the Alan Rose model was truncated to mount flat on the wall. Might be a lot more interest in large scale "out of the wall" models than we at first suppose...,

    Best, Gil
  19. Huey

    Huey Member

    Yeah, but then after awhile you'd wish you had the entire plane hanging from the ceiling rather than coming out of the wall. It still could be done, if you want a half plane, just don't build the remaining part. Better to have the entire plane and the proud owner can do whatever he wants after. Some may even want to show half of the entire plane rather than the Alan Rose model. In some cases, maybe somebody want's to show the tail end of the plane smack on the wall. :D
  20. Huey

    Huey Member

    Besides, then we are just copying the idea of Alan Rose and there might be some copyright issues. Unlike building this 1:16 scale, we took it a step further. And if it was design on a format that can be re-scaled easily, then we can down scale the model later.

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